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So I kind of want to ask about the unspoken elephant in the room. There were a lot of people at Alpha launch. Where is everyone and what drove people away? I know a couple things, but by my mental math at least 20 players aren’t accounted for and so I’m like WHAR PPL GO?
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@dvoraen I’ve been asking myself the same question, things have slowed down quite a bit. I am teetering on the edge of should I go or should I stay, I’ve been around since the game launched and I had really high hopes for it. It’s disappointing to see, for sure.
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@dvoraen It just wasn’t what I was looking for.
I never quite shook the residual discomfort I had with the use of ChatGPT. It also never quite felt like they were entirely honest about where they used it and to what degree. Everything I ran through an AI detector pinged as more than a light edit.
There were some good people that I had fun with, though, and it felt like they were trying to do their best. I don’t know. It’s a hard world out there. I think there is room to use ChatGPT, so I’m not totally against it. It just never felt super great.
Also, Baldur’s Gate came out, sooooooooooo.
she/they
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I’m still there, but the wind did get taken out of my sails when something was implemented, connections started to form, and then it was redacted. It coincided with a busy time at work that just hasn’t allowed me to regain momentum yet. But I will defend to the end a game runner’s ability to pick up and drop systems they aren’t interested in policing.
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I feel like it’s a trend with new Ares games. That the first month to two months it gets great interest and lots of activity, but then it just kinda dies right down. It’s happened on probably the last four or five games I’ve joined. It’s only a small percentage that keep up the numbers and interest.
I wasn’t even going to join Concordia, cause I had too many games already, and were loving them, but then one I’d joined that had been going for a couple months up and closed because the activity completely died. It’s disheartening and also makes me weary of getting attached to any new game.
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@Pink said in Concordia Thread:
I feel like it’s a trend with new Ares games.
This isn’t an Ares game trend; it’s an Every MU Ever trend (in my experience). New games open, there’s a big rush, and then it settles down. I think we may just see it happen more visibly nowadays because the technical barrier is a lot lower when we have resources like Ares that make the setup a bit easier for less technical folk.
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I think there was a lot of excitement about a new L&L alternative to existing options, a lot of FOMO about being able to get in, to get the roster of choice, or make an OC, and then people gradually discovered that (like every game) it suits some people and not others.
Much like @Tez mentioned, the ChatGPT thing is something I find uncomfortable and makes it not the game for me. It’ll still be the game for other people, and hopefully Concordia settles into the playerbase size that both admin and players find comfortable.
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I gave Concordia a go. I liked a lot of what I saw. But it was too much to keep up with at a casual pace, which is all I have time for these days.
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@Tez said in Concordia Thread:
Everything I ran through an AI detector pinged as more than a light edit.
Not to dismiss your concerns, but AI detectors are notoriously inaccurate at the moment.
He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
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@Pavel said in Concordia Thread:
@Tez said in Concordia Thread:
Everything I ran through an AI detector pinged as more than a light edit.
Not to dismiss your concerns, but AI detectors are notoriously inaccurate at the moment.
AFAIK, they’re inaccurate in the other direction, though.
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@Coin said in Concordia Thread:
@Pavel said in Concordia Thread:
@Tez said in Concordia Thread:
Everything I ran through an AI detector pinged as more than a light edit.
Not to dismiss your concerns, but AI detectors are notoriously inaccurate at the moment.
AFAIK, they’re inaccurate in the other direction, though.
It’s definitely both ways, though they’re likely being refined as we speak. At least the ones universities are using to detect cheating.
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@Pavel My other AI detector is my brain which is even more unreliable.
That said, there was what you can call a preponderance of evidence taken from a look at many areas of the game. It was all over. Weighed against the fact that they did admit to using it to some degree–! It wasn’t a question of if they used it, but rather how much and how transparently.
she/they
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I’m not savvy, forgive me.
Why does it matter where they used a tool if you like the theme and setting, and that tool assisted them in setting up a game? Seems like less work for game runners and administrators is a good thing in my estimation.
I guess I don’t understand why this is slightly an issue? Is there a fear RP will just be AI output or what? How would this impact enjoyment of the game outside of judgements about the type of people that might us a tool?
Just trying to understand, not trolling. I don’t get the they used ChatGPT in their game creation and why if you like the theme and the game this could ever translate into something negative?
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@Buttercup It’s clearly more than just setup. GM poses and sets in scenes ping AI detectors. I can’t answer for Tez why it’s a problem for her, but it doesn’t seem accurate to say it was only used for theme files. It’s being used in RP scenes.
And, for myself, no small part of why I don’t want it in any rp spaces I might be in is that it’s pretty obvious at this point what is written by the LLM as it is bad writing.
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@Buttercup It’s a pretty complex situation and people have complex feelings about the use of ChatGPT and similar software. People are going to draw the line around that in different places and for different reasons. What is true for me is not going to be true for anyone else.
Personally, I think that there is absolutely room in our hobby to make use of ChatGPT. That isn’t what bothered me, per se. I think what got to me more was the lack of transparency in their approach.
It’s kind of funny, actually, because they were explicit, crystal clear about the use Midjourney to create PBs for their many characters. In fact, they were so good around their communication there that they even provided guidance around how to use Midjourney to create PBs for the game and in general use.
However, when it came to their use of ChatGPT, they did not call out their use of that as an assitive tool. They have not been clear about where and how they used it.
Beyond that, there is something to be said about the quality of the material produced using ChatGPT even beyond the ethics of it. Bluntly, ChatGPT produces shallow, reductive, artificial and artificially glossy content. It doesn’t have the texture or nuance of human-created content. It’s often also coming from an extremely narrow worldview which can lead to some pretty bland presentations with a serious lack of diversity.
Those are not things I enjoy in theme, setting, characters, or RP.
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Thank you, that makes sense.
I didn’t realize it was being used in RP for GM sets and scene RP I must have missed that in the thread somewhere. I can understand that and why people wouldn’t want to be part of that. Granted, it’s still probably better than my writing! Lol. I don’t think I could pick it out if someone was using it with me.
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Thank you for the explanation.
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@Roz said in Concordia Thread:
@Pink said in Concordia Thread:
I feel like it’s a trend with new Ares games.
This isn’t an Ares game trend; it’s an Every MU Ever trend (in my experience). New games open, there’s a big rush, and then it settles down. I think we may just see it happen more visibly nowadays because the technical barrier is a lot lower when we have resources like Ares that make the setup a bit easier for less technical folk.
I will say that on a non-Ares MU if I decide, hey, I want some random RP, I can go into a public room and chill and if someone wants to join they can and if no one does no big. While on an Ares game I have to start a scene and throw out a first pose and then my failure to draw people in will be a feature of the active scenes page until I finally give up and go weep in a corner. And then if I’m proud of my failure I can make certain it is permanently made a part of the public record.
Concordia never really hit with me. I’m not sure what I wanted, but it felt like a lot of people weren’t really sure what they were doing and then they got successful and then they really didn’t know what they were trying to do. My favorite part was when they set up official house positions, but each house had like twenty positions to fill. Like, there were not nearly enough players to fill these spots, and the big holes in the rosters just looked silly.
Some players did some really impressive worldbuilding there, especially with work on their houses and home worlds, but the day the head of the game was like “we have no intention to do any all-game crises” after the big event that had everyone in the same city, I knew it wasn’t gonna maintain any heat. They were taking away a key reason for everyone to RP. You won’t find me bristling with compliments for Arx, but it had a clever reason for everyone to be in the same place rather than going home to their home domains. Concordia didn’t seem like it even wanted that.
love that perfect frown
