Paroxysm - split off

[Shygaming]

@somasatori said:

@Shygaming said:
Remember: a citizen with nothing to hide has nothing to redact.

Your diligence has been noted, Loyal Citizen.

I get what you’re saying. However, given that there are bad actors who have attempted to masquerade as other people in this hobby for years, and who will often use the same language about privacy to justify said masquerade, I think one is liable to be a bit suspicious, no? Fool me once and all that.

I do not care. I am rapidly beginning to understand why Tyr barely spoke to anyone.

Nobody has asked me anything about the game. It feels like people are far more interested in the possibility that there is some scandal to uncover or in repeatedly telling me they disagree with a design decision than they are in Paroxysm itself. Nobody seems particularly curious about the systems, the setting, the direction, or what I am actually trying to build. The only things generating sustained interest seem to be who I might have been on some other game years ago and whether there is some design decision people disagree with strongly enough that we can spend another three pages telling me they disagree with it after I have already acknowledged that they do.

The code is open source partly because I sincerely hope somebody eventually forks it into the hugbox version of the game. Then they can have that and I can keep making the game I actually want to make without having this same argument until the heat death of the universe.

That is why I am finding this whole conversation increasingly difficult to care about. If people want to talk about Paroxysm, I am happy to talk about Paroxysm. If the real attraction here is trying to unmask me, reconstruct some ancient hobby drama, or repeatedly relitigate design decisions because my answer did not change after the first three times, I genuinely have nothing useful to contribute to that.

I’m going to take a break before this thread gets split into a fourth thread.

I wish I’d gone for a walk before posting that. I posted it out of anger and I don’t think it was a particularly useful contribution.

Anyway. Yeah. I can see this probably isn’t my crowd and I don’t think continuing to argue about it is doing anyone much good.

I’m going to leave the thread here and get back to working on the game. I’ll be in discord if anyone wants to talk about it.

[Selira]

I don’t know how to tell you this but who you are, the mechanics you choose to use, and your philosophy as an admin are all more salient in the day-to-day experience of playing your game in most cases than “can my character fly?”

[Kestrel]

@Shygaming said:

Nobody has asked me anything about the game. It feels like people are far more interested in the possibility that there is some scandal to uncover or in repeatedly telling me they disagree with a design decision than they are in Paroxysm itself. Nobody seems particularly curious about the systems, the setting, the direction, or what I am actually trying to build.

You didn’t build anything. A LLM did, on top of someone else’s codebase.

You’ve already been advised, with a lot more tact than I possess, that the attitude on BMD is broadly hostile to LLM usage in this hobby. By now if you had the capacity for original thought, rather than outsourcing it to a clanker, you likely should’ve also pieced together that the attitude towards exposing other players to themes of sexual assault, even more so without their consent and interest, is also a pretty universal anathema. So what you’re doing here is the equivalent of a Millennial fashion designer turning up at a campus Freshers’ Week and weeping, “why won’t anyone buy my skinny jeans?” This is absolutely not your target market, even if you did have anything creative to contribute to a creative hobby, run and populated by creative people whose developers and builders have a long history of putting in real work. I mean, I’m sorry, what do you want us to do here? Clap for Claude? The website is so generic I had to check the nearest bottle of tequila to be sure there wasn’t a lethal reason I feel like I’m seeing double, triple, quadruple the replicability of all that slop.

But even if there were posters or lurkers here who are pro-AI and anti-collaborative-storytelling, the latter of which is your own description, it still wouldn’t matter to seasoned community members half as much as the assurance of community safety in this hobby. This is a small niche, and people join games largely through word-of-mouth and reputation. Under ordinary circumstances, I don’t think this requires you to self-identify; I’ve joined games run by total strangers. But I’ve also bounced just as fast at the first glimpse of a red flag, because they hadn’t yet earned the grace of trust and benefit of the doubt. And here you’re waving a lot of red flags, from the actual theme of the game, to its codebase, to the sea of AI slop, to your own stated ethos of, “It’s actually good if players often don’t have fun, including having their character raped, but only and I mean only if they really, really don’t want that to happen.” Like … what?

It’s giving 5’11 guy thinks people on apps are shallow because he can’t get any matches, and no one even asks about his podcast, but his profile says “Free the Tate Brothers”.

[NotSanni]

@Shygaming said:

@somasatori said:

@Shygaming said:
Remember: a citizen with nothing to hide has nothing to redact.

Your diligence has been noted, Loyal Citizen.

I get what you’re saying. However, given that there are bad actors who have attempted to masquerade as other people in this hobby for years, and who will often use the same language about privacy to justify said masquerade, I think one is liable to be a bit suspicious, no? Fool me once and all that.

I do not care. I am rapidly beginning to understand why Tyr barely spoke to anyone.

Nobody has asked me anything about the game. It feels like people are far more interested in the possibility that there is some scandal to uncover or in repeatedly telling me they disagree with a design decision than they are in Paroxysm itself. Nobody seems particularly curious about the systems, the setting, the direction, or what I am actually trying to build. The only things generating sustained interest seem to be who I might have been on some other game years ago and whether there is some design decision people disagree with strongly enough that we can spend another three pages telling me they disagree with it after I have already acknowledged that they do.

The code is open source partly because I sincerely hope somebody eventually forks it into the hugbox version of the game. Then they can have that and I can keep making the game I actually want to make without having this same argument until the heat death of the universe.

That is why I am finding this whole conversation increasingly difficult to care about. If people want to talk about Paroxysm, I am happy to talk about Paroxysm. If the real attraction here is trying to unmask me, reconstruct some ancient hobby drama, or repeatedly relitigate design decisions because my answer did not change after the first three times, I genuinely have nothing useful to contribute to that.

I’m going to take a break before this thread gets split into a fourth thread.

You’ve made it abundantly clear that you don’t care much for what people think or believe with regards to design when you’re convinced you’re in the right (which is a flaw you share with Tyr).

Maybe if you did care, people would assume you’re making a good faith attempting at building a good, interesting, cool RP space instead of assuming you’re making a weird PvP S.A. game.

Instead, you’re just being incredibly shady, and when confronted with the criticism of “this is just Haven, Again”, what you did was use an LLM to brute force remove every direct mention of Haven, without actually changing much of the real content of the game outside of like… Getting rid of the Order, changing the Temple to the Scum, and changing The Hand to Cortex or whatever.

I know because I made a character to check things out, and when you said you’d removed the references to Haven, I went to check things out again. So it was just a somehow more generic game than Haven already kind of was.

Except now you can kill and maim people without Sanctuary stopping them (which basically makes the fact that Sanctuary nullifies S.A. a moot point, because people can now just threaten to do bodily harm to someone who doesn’t say they agree to sleep with them - which is STILL r*pe, so you’re being pretty disingenuous and evasive when you suggest Sanctuary protects people from that).

Maybe if you cared, you’d be making a cool thing instead of getting upset that people are saying the project doesn’t seem very good, or cool, or interesting, or for their tastes.

You can’t even get the people in the Armageddon shadow boards or whatever they call it these days interested (your admitted target audience), because at least those losers realise “hey, hard coding and allowing non-consensual S.A. stuff is a bad idea for the community and will make things bad”.

[catzilla]

“nobody is asking questions about my game!”

multiple questions about rape/SA/etc policies in game gone unanswered here and elsewheres

[Juniper]

Rather than hurl a “fuck AI” and bounce like I did before I’ll try to actually explain what is so off-putting about it and how you can improve it.

I would massively encourage you to give your website a once-over with your human voice and tell us what your game is about. LLMs do a lot of “movie trailer voice” punching up how cool and important all this is, but is infuriatingly vague.

It would’ve taken half the number of words to say “some shithead opened a portal to hell during WWII and now everyone is mega racist towards the magic people”. That is also the only thing I know about your game. Like, what is an angelborn? What’s a demonborn? I have no idea. You have pages which I clicked expecting to find out, but you have so many clickable links that look like they would lead to more information but just don’t. Either they lead to other unrelated pages, or aren’t clickable at all.

I’ve seen your website and still have no idea where your game is set or basic information about what I can play. You need to sit down and write your elevator pitch on what this is. You probably went with the AI because you think it writes better than you. I can guarantee it does not. Three sentences in your own voice would blow whatever the fuck this is out of the water. Just tell us where the game is physically set. What year it is. A recent event leading up to present day. Anything.

[Third Eye]

I continue to genuinely think there are lurkers on this board who will be interested in this game and check it out based on this ad, even if I am…to put it mildly…not its audience. Which is why I have basically nothing to say about the use of LLM in it or any of its coded systems. It’s not for me and I shouldn’t opine on it. There are more players in the MU community than I think is readily apparent, even if they just dip in and out of new games more often than not, and there are always more people who just casually read a board like this than post on it actively. Especially if saying they like something is unlikely to be received positively by the regulars. So I think advertising here was kinda laudable given it got exactly the reception one would expect…up to a point. There’s a point beyond which you’ve done all you can do and just have to do your thing and see how people respond to it when it’s live, though. The ad post is there, people will read it, it’s not bogged down in all the tangents.

Also, yes, as @catzilla said there are currently more active threads about this game/tangentially related to this game than there is about anything else, and they are asking questions.

[Apos]

@Shygaming in all honesty I just feel I’m not the audience for it and I don’t know it well enough to ask questions I thought would be useful. Like I could ask general questions like, if you are adapting Haven’s code base, what new systems are you as a game runner most interested in adding and what ones did you find not great and are getting rid of?

[Pyrephox]

It almost sounds as if you became frustrated and unhappy when your online experience was derailed by people forcing unwanted interactions on you with no consideration to whether you were having fun and when you had no way to stop it except logging off.

There may be a lesson in there worth learning.

[Pavel]

@Pyrephox