Lords and Ladies Game Design
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@Jumpscare I get a Coup (the card game) vibe from this.
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@Jumpscare TL;DR
Still love it!
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@Ominous said in Lords and Ladies Game Design:
@Jumpscare I get a Coup (the card game) vibe from this.
Halfway through writing it, I thought, “This is coming together a lot like Coup. But with more emphasis on roleplay.”
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I love Coup!
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This is part of why I prefer no dice for my personal rp, because I fine the conversational interplay fun! But if I have to use social dice for RP, my personal preferred order of operations is
- OOC note of a social roll being needed and some discussion of what they’re attempting
- Base roll
- Socially savvy characters can use a buff to bump up their number
- RP out the results. If it’s a failure, the player gets to decide how they fail. Maybe they offhandedly mention ties to someone the other character/npc hates, maybe they talked a bit too long when the other character prefers brevity, maybe they leaned a bit too hard on Intimidation and figured they could back it up when they couldn’t. That way you avoid the thing of “player makes speech but dice say no” thing, or the failure becoming out of character.
Then again I’m one of those people who enjoys playing out failure because I think how and why a character fails and how they react to it is absolutely fascinating
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@spiriferida I prefer no dice when I play with people I know well. Otherwise, I prefer the dice because generally I don’t trust other people I don’t know to play in a way that keeps it fun for everyone.
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I feel like if there’s a system to allow a character to affect the world with dice, they’re great. If there’s an attempt to allow a character to affect another PC with dice… I’d prefer not to.
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Another random thought:
PCs should not be at the highest levels of power. There are a few reasons for this, mostly related to the nature of players.
- The people who most want to be “in charge” of other PCs are generally not the people you actually want to have that power. And often, they want it as an achievement…and once they get it, they disappear.
- If your game relies on themes (like, say, conflict between factions or internal societal tensions) then you should not rely on PCs to enforce those as leaders. Most players won’t enforce theme, and the ones who do often end up burning out and miserable because they’re thrust in a position of “fun police” that isn’t actually very fun (ask me how I know).
- “Good” leadership is actually not great for the game part of the game. Leaders who try to make friends, decrease tensions, and set up long-term successes push things towards stagnation. PC leaders who lean into creating thematically-appropriate conflict often catch whole loads of shit from other players. NPC leaders only have to make decisions that are aimed at making the game fun/exciting/tense for everyone - PC leaders often make decisions based on what they feel will make other players like them, or just get off their back.
- Likewise, absent or rapidly rotating leadership makes it hard for players to have continuity of play, and PC leadership positions usually exist in a state of either functionally absent or flipping through PC leaders like a rolodex as new people show up, burn out, leave.
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@Pyrephox said in Lords and Ladies Game Design:
- If your game relies on themes (like, say, conflict between factions or internal societal tensions) then you should not rely on PCs to enforce those as leaders. Most players won’t enforce theme, and the ones who do often end up burning out and miserable because they’re thrust in a position of “fun police” that isn’t actually very fun (ask me how I know).
On top of it not being fun, it’s also how a lot of theme drift happens, or how an environment can grow OOCly toxic. When you off-load theme enforcement to players, the people who are Loud and Around end up doing it. Sometimes those are people who are actually helpful, a lot of times they’re not.
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@Pyrephox said in Lords and Ladies Game Design:
“Good” leadership is actually not great for the game part of the game. Leaders who try to make friends, decrease tensions, and set up long-term successes push things towards stagnation. PC leaders who lean into creating thematically-appropriate conflict often catch whole loads of shit from other players. NPC leaders only have to make decisions that are aimed at making the game fun/exciting/tense for everyone - PC leaders often make decisions based on what they feel will make other players like them, or just get off their back.
This is a much more eloquent way of expressing what’s been in my gut for a while.
NPC leaders can make the seemingly irrational decisions that are sometimes necessary on a MUSH and make stories fun. They can demote someone for apparently no reason (they’re idle <.<) or fall for the enemy’s (omg so obvious) ploy when it heightens the danger in a plot.
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I see PCs at the highest levels of power working under certain circumstances:
- The power is temporary.
- The power comes with constraints.
For the first, I point again to Republic of Rome and John Company board games and the themes that they have. Rather than having position be mostly inherited, it is mostly appointed. You want to be one of the two proconsuls over the entire Republic? Sure! But the term is only for two years, you can’t have consecutive terms, and you can always be brought to trial by the Censors for fucking around. You want to be the general of the armies in Bengal? Sure! Better bring in spoils and not lose too many men, or we’re kicking your ass to the curb. No one gets to just be a position because their mommy or daddy had the position, and there are expectations of performance.
For the second, I had thought of game centered around the politics of the fey/divine beings. One attains more power and Prestige by the titles that they posses, such as The Red Count, Lord of the Dead, The Frosted One, The Dweller at the Threshold, etc. When one bests the current possessor of the title, they get it. While each title gives powers and more Prestige, it also comes with taboos. The Red Count can’t touch iron. The Frosted One can’t be in the sun. So on and so forth. Break a taboo and you are greatly weakened, making it easier for someone to steal the title from you.
EDIT: But I will agree that, in general, the top echelons of power should be NPCs who give tasks to the PC underlings.
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Political systems this, intrigue systems that. Honestly I liked that Arx had some basic House development stuff. I would have liked to have seen it expanded and would like any L&L game to have something similar.
Anyway, someone let me know if a new game comes out! I am feeling some fantasy vibes as evidenced by these High Elf minis I’ve been slowly working on
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@Rucket Could you elaborate on what you mean by “basic House development”?
