@bear_necessities said in Numetal/Retromux:

I don’t disagree but also it is very very very clear from the wording of that post that there’s an expectation that an inappropriate amount of time is spent on applications.

I believe that inappropriate amount of time is subjective. What one person sees as inappropriate is appropriate to another. So in this case, the amount of time was inappropriate to you and @Wikibara, and probably at least some other non-zero number of people out there.

So if we’re normalizing that, whose subjective opinion are we using to set the baseline?

@bear_necessities said in Numetal/Retromux:

But also if 1-2 hours spent on an application is considered minimal effort and not good enough for a game then woof, probably better to move on. We all have lives, right? RIGHT?!

That really depends on what the 1-2 hours produced. I’ve ran into players who take 2 hours to write two unintelligible sentences in a pose, so it’s feasible that what was written, even though it took 2 hours, was awful.

Amount of Time != Quality

@BurnNotice said in Numetal/Retromux:

I got no dog in this fight, I’m mostly around here for entertainment value these days when some idiot like a Wikibara pops up and almost nothing ever gets me to post but holy shit, reading that ban announcement for some reason made me so thankful that I don’t mess around with these long-winded, Biblical Length Style application process WoD games anymore.

From what it sounds like, RetroMUX wasn’t looking for a biblical length application, just an application that reflected a basic understanding of written English alongside a working knowledge of the WoD universe.

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

@MisterBoring Yeah, or they could have been, as they said, asking for clarification on incomprehensible feedback, or pointing out catch-22 feedback, or pointing out that they corrected as the feedback requested but the staffer is still giving the same complaint. (Indeed, I’ve been made familiar with the experience of changing what’s asked and having staffer continue to complain about the thing that isn’t there now, and of having staffer complain bitterly that I don’t just say “okay,” and do things that aren’t really possible.)

Well, based on the post before yours that you I guess didn’t read, it looks like the reasons for the ban were, and I’m sort of summarizing here:

• Overly defensive when responding to staff feedback
• Writing of such low quality that the AI question came up
• Causing staff an imbalance in their workloads due to all of their OOC activities interacting with other players.
• Begging players to help with the application, being told by the players to go ask the staffer in question, and then going deer in the headlights.
• Showing signs that they weren’t actually familiar enough with WoD to write a cohesive background.

So yeah, maybe you’re right.

@Gashlycrumb said in Numetal/Retromux:

Sounds to me like they’re trying to “avoid headaches” by having unclear requirements for apps and going by the vibe, and then fucking with an actual person by pretending that it’s a problem with the app instead of admitting that they just don’t like @Wikibara’s eyeliner or something.

Or it could be that staff continued to provide feedback to them which they then ignored, on repeat, until staff could not deal with it anymore and handed down a ban. It could also be that they themselves said something untoward to a staff member and got banned. It could be that they plagiarized giant portions of a known work of fiction for their backstory.

Until someone from staff or close to staff deigns to post some sort of ban message or otherwise, we won’t know the whole story.

@Wikibara You could easily just share the Discord name of the offender and if they happen to be here, they can defend themselves. People who are associated with RetroMUX would invariably be able to confirm whether that person plays on RetroMUX.

And you can avoid sharing racist screed while still identifying broken stairs in the community.

@Wikibara Let’s return to the issue then. It sounds like you weren’t writing in a way that jives with the Staff there in the way that they’d prefer, so they showed you the door. I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you, but at the same time, if they had approved you, it sounds like they’re just trying to avoid headaches all around and you’re slightly upset by it.

ALSO, please for the love of god turn on your PM privacy on Discord, you’re just asking to get hacked or have more random racist nonsense sent to you.

@Wikibara said in Numetal/Retromux:

Clearly, I’ve found the apologists - perhaps it’s required that I share the specific message that I received, because there’s otherwise no cause for any person to receive antisemetic messages, ever.

Edit: Clearly you could not possibly have done anything to cause them to give you a cold shoulder, and since we don’t have those PMs / the logs from the game, we have to just trust that you were 100% in the right in this situation.

That seems like broken logic to me.

1. ) Player A gets banned from Game Z.
2. ) Random Discord User #1 sends Player A a racist message.
3. ) Random Discord User #1 must therefore be sent by Game Z or somehow related to Game Z.

This is similar in logical function to:

1. ) Bob is dishonest about his job application at Company A and fails to get the job.
2. ) Random Jerk on the Street #1 tells Bob to get a life in front of McDonalds.
3. ) Random Jerk on the Street #1 must therefore be sent by Company A or somehow related to Company A.

ALSO: Who in 2026 lets randos send them PMs on Discord?

@Wikibara said in Numetal/Retromux:

I can see the error in how I parsed that sentence. No, I did not receive an antisemetic message from the admin in question; that message was separate and arrived about eleven minutes later. As to how connected that they are, I am not spending any time contemplating. The two events took place so close, one merged with the other, although not likely by the same hand.

You’re still making it sound very much like they are connected. What person potentially related to RetroMUX sent you racist screed?

@DapperPenguin said in Numetal/Retromux:

You are telling the truth and treating it like another nit to pick.

Yeah, it does sound like it’s just another nit to pick, when it should really be a full call out of a game’s staff for being racist.

@Wikibara said in Numetal/Retromux:

some routine antisemitic stuff, nothing that unusual.

Did you get this from their staff?

Ted Turner, founder of CNN, TBS, and TNT.

One of those games should change their name. Some MU shit-fuckery could occur on one or both of them, and we need to be able to delineate which is which when the eventual discussion thread(s) starts here.

So no tea?

@howyadoin said in Non-toxic PvP:

I don’t think using the term “PvP” for decades contributes to the problems we’re discussing, and I don’t think changing it to “CvC” solves any of the problems we’re discussing.

I don’t think changing it to CvC is intended to solve problems, just clearly delineate IC vs OOC. For some people PvP bears the distinction that indeed the player of the character wishes to end the fun of other players.

Also, if you approach IC conflict in a fully RP MU (so a MUSH or MUX or whatever) as though it’s a round of all slappers in Goldeneye, I would suggest that you’re in the wrong place and would better be served by a PvP MUD.

@Faraday said in Non-toxic PvP:

It is someone whose very existence is predicated on being part of a moderate to high-conflict group and then avoiding conflict.

I think we have to clarify whether we’re talking about someone playing an IC pacifist and the narrative of such a character. The character should strive to avoid conflict, sure, but at the same time, in order to create amazing story out of that, that pacifism should be tested by them being backed into a situation where they either maintain their pacifism and have to escape harm, or their personal ethics break and they evolve as a character.

On the other hand, you could have someone who’s character isn’t a pacifist, but they as a player choose to avoid CvC whenever possible, and also wish to stop the rest of their group from participating in such narratives with their PCs, regardless of their players intentions.

I think we need to really separate the IC pacifism vs OOC pacifism in this context, because I can totally see amazing narratives coming out of someone playing an IC pacifist in a CvC heavy faction, but can also see how OOC pacifism can lead to other OOC pitfalls.

@somasatori This totally looks like Rick Sanchez wrote a TTRPG review.

@Faraday Here’s what I don’t like when I say pacifists shouldn’t join CvC factions, using the same two characters @Jumpscare made up:

MH: I’ve secured the Staff of Power for our faction. We must be prepared to defend it, because the Winter Hills Clan will kill to claim it for themselves. The war will be long, we must be prepared to defend the Staff with our lives, and unfortunately, we will have to take theirs, as they are willing to give their lives to take it.

PP: Yeah, I joined this faction because I like the color scheme of the faction on my PB. I wasn’t aware this was a CvC faction and have no intent in helping anything ICly.

MH:

@Faraday said in Non-toxic PvP:

Pacifists literally do exist, and a pacifist trapped in a high-conflict faction could be an interesting character concept if done well.

There’s a difference between being an IC pacifist and being an OOC pacifist that prefers everyone be pacifist, which I think is the version @Juniper was commenting about.