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Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo
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@GF said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@64bitjedi said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@GF said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@64bitjedi said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
When the people who will defend others leave a space, that space gets worse. People need to know there is someone they can report this stuff to.
If this thread is the first time you’re hearing most of these complaints, then people do not know or believe there is someone that can report this stuff to.
Which is the only reason I’m here trying.
Let me get this straight. Your goal here is to make people understand that you will be their advocate, and that’s why your first post was to say you never played on some other game we’re not really even talking about? That’s why you haven’t reached out to anyone who’s made an accusation and offered to listen? That’s why your tone has been pedantic and defensive? That’s why when people ask what you’re doing, you answer in the vaguest possible terms that could not possibly provide any comfort or confidence to the people who have been hurt on your game?
I will try to give you the benefit of the doubt that you actually believe you’re here to let victims of your game know they’re safe in your hands, but even if you believe it, the level of thoughtlessness and incompetence you are displaying is unconscionable. You are so bad at the thing you claim to want to do that you are actively doing harm to your own purported cause. You seriously need to step out of that role immediately until you have done hard research into how to talk to victims of sexual harassment.
I suppose me telling you this obligates me to give you a crash course on the topic, but I am much too tired to deal with it and too flabbergasted to do so with any degree of good faith.
If this is how you treat people who are trying to help, I can start to understand why no one tries to help.
I don’t know anyone in this situation very well. But what I do know is that no one on staff over there but @64bitjedi is offering anything but a giant wall of IGNORE or denials for the situation.
Even if the help is shitty (which I don’t think that it is, especially considering that he has had no obligation to try to help or explain anything or make anyone feel better and was specifically told not to but chose to do it anyway) it is still more help than anyone else has gotten. And instead of building on that, you just want to unload all your anger on this person.
If you’re trying to make him go away so that you can continue to scream/complain into the void without any possibility of anything ever improving, then keep it up, you are definitely off to a good start.
But personally, I’d suggest going another route and actually trying to work with the person that is trying to work with you.
@helvetica said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@64bitjedi You can’t just be here. Games don’t function without coders. You’re someone with influence on that game, and you are being presented with the opportunity to no longer support someone who is demonstratively not interested in changing their deeply troubling behavior. No amount of placating language is going to change that.
If he’s someone with influence on that game how does it help to remove himself from the game? You have someone that has the power to change things and you ask them to give up all that power and leave it to the people who are doing all the bad things? That doesn’t make any sense… except…
It definitely helps all the hurt/angry people that would like to see the place fail as revenge, but it doesn’t actually help the game itself in any way.
So what really is the goal? Improving the situation or scorched earth revengery?
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Clearly the upset people should just smile more.
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@Roz said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
I mean, unless you’re going to come in with proof that all of the stuff that’s been discussed is a pack of lies, then I’m afraid your options are: ignorant, incompetent, or actively malicious.
Out of curiosity, what sort of proof would be accepted as valid? Everyone here has already said that no log will ever be accepted as evidence of anything. Would an equal number of people claiming that everything was filthy, filthy lies be enough? That doesn’t make sense, as surely they’d be labeled as Cujo/Hadrix/Et al shills, right?
I’ve no dog in this hunt, not knowing anyone involved and never having played the game in question, but from a completely outsider perspective, everyone seems to view the other side as acting in complete bad faith. If personal testimony is the only currency of evidence available, then no amount of evidence will change anyone’s mind since it’s always assumed to be questionable at best or actively malicious at worse.
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@64bitjedi I think you’ve been pretty mild-mannered given the coal-raking. It’s hard to be in your spot, and I can appreciate that, and I can respect that you came here to face the music in a townsquare format, not because I think that’s such a highly respectable thing to do: I think it’s the bare minimum, but you seem to be the only Staffer from your game to do that.
I can also appreciate that you have a tangible investment of real labor hours in this game, an emotional connection to it, and a vested interest in the community. Most of the people on this board don’t, and so it’s effortless and quarrelless to dismiss the entire thing as unsalvageably bad without having to contemplate all the good times you’ve likely had there.
I have no doubt that Staffers who clearly have known the whole time that they were acting in bad faith went to extraordinary lengths to keep their bad behavior and problematic incidents from you; as a coder, giving you as few reasons to get involved in anything but coding is in Cujo’s best interest.
When I hear terms like “investigation” in reference to something like this, an online game, I don’t know, that just makes me laugh. You’ve read this thread, and as kept-in-the-coder-dark as you might have been, you know the vibe of your own game. You know the character of the people that you co-staff with. Either you believe the claims of egregious, absofuckinglutely untenable harassment and abuse of power, or you don’t.
So let’s assume that you do believe them, because I’ve never seen this many claims about someone who was innocent, like ever, ever, ever, so let’s assume that you do: now what?
Do you have the authority to get rid of Hadrix? To disempower him from a Staff bit? To ban him from the game? If you had that authority, would you use it? I’m willing to bet that if Cujo is headwiz, you can’t get rid of him.
This is where we’re stuck. From the longevity and pattern of behavior described on this thread, I don’t see much chance for a rehabilitation of Cujo or Hadrix’s behavior. Any changes will be short-lived, and why shouldn’t they be? They’ll have gotten away with it. They say a few contrite words, hush up on Public for a couple of days, or weeks, and it all blows over.
Your players, the people here, folks are telling you that doesn’t cut the mustard.
Continuing to support Hadrix or Cujo in any way, and I believe that includes continuing to provide support for a game in which they have not been punished or disempowered, as good as your intentions are and as good as you say your intentions are, that makes you an enabler. And that’s what I think some other folks are trying to tell you, and frankly, I agree.
I wish you would.
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Pardoning your own staff, how brave!
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@Pax Thank you for articulating all that in a far less frustrated and angry way than I could ever have managed.
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So it seems that you are helpful to Cujo. Help him steer and control where he wants the game to go, you are fine to do whatever you wish to other players. That it is an honor to be bothered by his hand-picked sex pests, or did I miss read his post?
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@64bitjedi said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@helvetica said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
I mean, if I were you I would cut ties with this mess. Maybe you could help build something worthwhile with some of these players who are dedicated to making a better, more socially responsible game.
When the people who will defend others leave a space, that space gets worse. People need to know there is someone they can report this stuff to. We’ve done it with other instances. People have been banned from the game for this behavior. Every instance of harassment I have been made aware of has had investigations done and determinations made.
Just out of curiosity, why so patently loyal to Cujo? Because from the optics, he does nothing but turn a blind eye to abuse because he can’t be bothered to deal with it, so the sex pests run amok. Does he have some kind of dirty laundry on you. Because is it that easy to wash your hands of it because ‘investigations were done and determinations were made’ when all the evidence and testimony here suggests the exact opposite?
Or do you just not give a shit?
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@STD said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
Everyone here has already said that no log will ever be accepted as evidence of anything.
It is evidence, it’s just bad evidence.
But your overall question is good: What kinds of things would we accept as proof for assertions?
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Cujo sounds like he stepped straight out of 1998 Game Admin School.
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@STD said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
Everyone here has already said that no log will ever be accepted as evidence of anything.
lol citation needed
there’s a vast gulf between “logs of bad behavior aren’t required to assume it is happening” and “no log will ever be accepted as evidence of anything”
also is this game run by Ganymede? this whole “stand by your man while he harasses everyone around you and pretend it’s fine” vibe is crazy familiar, bonus points for opaque “discussions” and banning everyone
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The question of ‘What would get all of our player back?’ is probably moot at this point. Cujo has been weighting the entire game heavily in favor of a particular group for years now.
He’s changed the rules multiple times to allow non-Mandalorians to ‘convert’ to ‘real’ Mandalorians, which is how the Kora group started in the first place. Then he changed the rules so nobody else could ever form a group that way.
Clearly, the only players he cares about are the toxic club in Clan Kora. Might as well change the game’s name to Manbros: Age of Kora.
But if there’s any legitimate curiosity from staff about why some of their former players left, we’ve got a whole list of reasons in this thread.
The main grievance though, can really just be gleaned from the thread’s title: What are they going to do about the cultural of sexual pestering and harassment that permeates the game, and what are they going to do about the game’s (arguably) most obnoxious player?
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Convenient that everyone who spoke up, or was friends with the fired staff, was purged from the game before Cujo released a statement.
There are inaccuracies. There are no mentions of multiple other people who stepped forward with claims. There are flat out lies about the removed staff. There is no mention of Cujo’s own questionable behavior. He has been quick to denounce this website as a whole. He’s covering his ass, he’s covering Hadrix’s, and he’s throwing the people who spoke up under the bus.
My alts were deleted, wiki access revoked, main character (I believe) thrown into an off grid room. I did not plan on returning to the game with Cujo and Hadrix on staff, but am allowed to be angry about the blatant power and revenge trip - and I’m not even INVOLVED. I was only vocal. The same has been done to other players as well.
500+ comments on a pervasive culture of toxicity and predation, complete with allegations against both Cujo and Hadrix, who was promoted to staff anyway, and yet they’ve done nothing wrong.
ETA: clarity
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@DarthSmegma said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
He’s changed the rules multiple times to allow non-Mandalorians to ‘convert’ to ‘real’ Mandalorians
I may be getting my canon wires crossed here, because… fuckin’ look at canon… but isn’t that already a totally normal (if difficult) thing that can happen?
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@Pavel Yeah, sure. And now on AoA only NEW players can be Mandalorians. No existing players can go grab some beskar armor and pestering everyone.
Except that’s not ENTIRELY true. Apparently the posted rule was bent recently to allow Colo Nell to convert despite being past the thirty day ‘new character’ limit listed in the rules.
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@DarthSmegma Ah, I see. It’s rules upon rules upon fuckery upon bullshit.
Carry on!
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@Pavel Yeah, the Kora clan was allowed to form a specific way in game, and then that particular ladder was pulled up.
Clan Kora must always be on top, no matter how many times the rules must change.
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@64bitjedi said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
@GF First I would have to have any idea who made the complaints, and I think we all know why me suddenly asking for the names of accusers might have pretty bad optics.
Okay. I’m rested, I have more spoons, my temper is somewhat restored. I’m going to ask you questions that are not friendly in tone but that you will have to be able to answer if you actually want people to trust you mean what you say about wanting to help.
Why do you need to know who made the complaints? What exactly is the process you intend to follow that requires the people who have made accounts here to complain about rampant sexual harassment on your game to identify themselves and their alts to you?
Nobody is going to believe me if I suddenly show up on scene, telling everyone, “Hey guys! Banshee is here! You’re all safe now!” That would be hilariously dumb.
Yes, I know. It would be dumb because it would be making all this be about you. Has it occurred to you that you can instead do this by making it about them? That instead of showing up and claiming that you will make everything better, you could have showed up and said something like, “Hi, everyone. I’m Banshee over on AoA, and I apologize to everyone who’s experienced sexual harassment on a game I’m responsible for. I had no idea this kind of thing was happening, or that I project an image that you can’t trust me to handle your complaints fairly. I want to do everything in my power to help you get justice, whatever that looks like to you. If you’re interested, please, tag me in a reply or DM me so we can start a talk about what you need from me?”
Do you understand the message it sends when you come over here claiming to want to help victims but instead make the conversation all about you and your reputation, your history, your track record? Because women spend most of our lives having men use their power to casually deny our humanity in favor of casting us as subordinates to men, and sexual harassment is just another, hurtful permutation of that. When you act like the conversation needs to be about you and your good intentions, it sends a message that we can’t trust you because you see yourself as the protagonist of our stories. That may not be your intent, but it’s how it comes off, so you need to work on that to be an effective advocate.
I cannot undo what has happened. I don’t think I can even provide some measure of comfort to people that were wronged. But someone in the community is here, putting themselves out there for the discussion.
If you think you can’t help, then why bring it up at all? What goal is served by saying you want to do a thing you can’t do? It sounds like you’re offering the equivalent of “thoughts and prayers,” wanting points for saying something you think is nice while refusing to take action for the people asking for it.
Also, I never promised that I was good at this. I never pretended to be an expert.
The analogy I’m going to offer is extreme, but I hope it demonstrates the difference between intent and outcome, and the importance of knowing what you’re doing.
Someone on a bus is choking. I decide I’m going to help them by doing that thing I’ve seen on TV where I stab them in the neck with a knife to puncture their airway, then stick a hollow pen in the hole so they can breathe through it. The only problem is, I don’t know how to do that, so instead of saving his life I kill him. I never told the man I killed I was good at this or an expert. But he is still dead and his blood is still on my hands.
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@Testament said in Star Wars Age of Alliances: Hadrix and Cujo:
<snip> why so patently loyal to Cujo? Because from the optics, he does nothing but turn a blind eye to abuse because he can’t be bothered to deal with it </snip>
He isn’t merely blind to sex pest behavior, he is a sex pest himself, per earlier posts, at minimum hiding in players’ private spaces while @dark to observe the TS of his player base, which is… eugh.
Since free porn and free erotica of every flavor can be found with the most casual of Google searches, and taking into account the… dubious quality of most TS writing, and my guess is the digital voyeurism was the real thrill there.
Add in that @sweep informs staff, apparently, so he can find out when he’s been caught creeping?
Super creep.
