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    AI In Poses

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Rough and Rowdy
    79 Posts 29 Posters 328 Views
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    This topic was forked from MU Peeves Thread Tez
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    • PavelP
      Pavel @Tez
      last edited by

      @Tez said in AI In Poses:

      Sorry, I wasn’t paying attention.

      a man in a suit and hat is standing in a park with his arms in the air

      He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
      BE AN ADULT

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • SolsticeS
        Solstice
        last edited by Solstice

        I thought about this thread when I was in a scene where someone was clearly struggling to get their point across.

        You know the type, the RPer who’s a little bit new and is flailing a bit, has some phonetic typos, and is coming off a bit flat, but they’re very earnest about it.

        This thread made me appreciate that they’re clearly putting in the effort to write their own stuff rather than just slamming it into ChatGPT to try to keep up.

        Struggle on, new writers. We do see you improving with every session.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
        • W
          Warma Sheen @somasatori
          last edited by Warma Sheen

          @somasatori said in AI In Poses:

          I have a question. What do you get out of MUSHing, a hobby wherein you write paragraphs at people in a turn-based format, when you’re not actually doing the writing? What’s the end goal there?

          I’ve had this conversation with more than a few people and one of the most common themes that came up: an experience as close to tabletop gaming as possible, but without being crapped on because of not being able to put out AP English writing or wait 20 minutes per exchange for all the editing.

          MU*ers can be catty, judgemental, petty, elitist, etc… to a higher degree than any I’ve ever known, probably to do with internet anonymity, which is one of the reasons the hobby continues to grow smaller and smaller. I’ve never known a community so highly motivated/invested in killing itself off as intensely as this one, and I’ve known some pretty shitty communities in my life (I’m old… er now.)

          People show up to MU*s for very different reasons and it sometimes seems like a large number of people assume that everyone else around them is there for the exact same reason as them then get frustrated/confused when they don’t play the way they would.

          I’ve had the conversation on other threads, so I won’t get into it again here if people reply back to tell me all the ways I’m wrong, but taking a tool that improves writing and using it on text based game seems like it would be a godsend to cure many of the ills that people have complained endlessly about for decades - bad writing, lack of storytellers, no interesting plots.

          But to each, their own. People will feel how they feel about it and that’s okay, I guess. Its just sad for me cause I loved this hobby and I really thought this might actually put some life back into it, like CPR. So it was disappointing/sad/whatever when all the villagers pointed at the thing that could bring someone back to life thereby improving the outlook/prosperity of the entire community, called it a witch, and want it burned at the stake.

          ETA: Not for nothing, but to go along with the analogy, some non-small portion of the thread is basically a witch hunt - with dubious degrees of accuracy.

          @Pavel said in AI In Poses:

          I can understand people using it as a translator.

          I know you mean that it takes Spanish and makes it English. But it seems like that also could apply to taking Shitty English and translating that to English.

          TrashcanT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • KarmaBumK
            KarmaBum
            last edited by

            There are people that I played with for years who are so boring, so uncreative, so repetitive and lacking spark that - by the metrics above - they are definitely being controlled by an LLM. There are times that my own writing is so flat that I would be less embarrassed if ChatGPT had written it.

            While I don’t particularly want to RP with a robot, I don’t have space in my brain to start worrying about whether or not someone I’m writing with is now or has ever been an AI.

            ^ part of that reply was written by ChatGPT

            …or was it?!

            On Dragon Wings · https://pern.gaslightswitch.com · pern.gaslightswitch.com port 4201

            bear_necessitiesB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • bear_necessitiesB
              bear_necessities @KarmaBum
              last edited by bear_necessities

              @KarmaBum This. At this point, if someone is secretly an AI? Fine. As long as they bring more spice to the table than “grim man in a trench coat who sighs meaningfully,” they can beep-boop their way right into my scene.

              ^ I might’ve also written part of this with AI. Or not. Who knows? It doesn’t matter. Just be interesting.

              AshkuriA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • TrashcanT
                Trashcan @Warma Sheen
                last edited by Trashcan

                @Warma-Sheen said in AI In Poses:

                I’ve had the conversation on other threads, so I won’t get into it again here if people reply back to tell me all the ways I’m wrong, but taking a tool that improves writing and using it on text based game seems like it would be a godsend to cure many of the ills that people have complained endlessly about for decades - bad writing, lack of storytellers, no interesting plots.

                Let’s grant for a second that these are ills that ChatGPT (and other LLMs, but based on the stats, it’s ChatGPT) can cure.

                Genuinely, if I can have a better time engaging with content from ChatGPT, then why do I need the other person in the loop at all? Because their (evidently) poorly-written self is somehow so much better and more effective at prompting than I am? Because I enjoy the randomness of whatever they might happen to throw at it? Why is the other person involved here? Why should I wait for them to pose back to me instead of asking ChatGPT myself? Someone explain it to me.

                he/him
                this machine kills fascists

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                • M
                  Muscle Car
                  last edited by

                  Until AI stops being tremendously and irreversibly environmentally destructive, and until it stops feeding money, growth and encouragement to the most evil people on the planet I see no need to make excuses for it. Maybe I’m a relative Luddite, but maybe that’s okay.

                  Got what you wanted, lost what you had.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                  • saoS
                    sao
                    last edited by

                    RPing with chatgpt is masturbation without the fun parts.

                    let it be a challenge to you

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                    • MisterBoringM
                      MisterBoring
                      last edited by

                      Question:

                      If you found out that a person was using ChatGPT to help write their poses in an effort to work past a physical limitation, what would your opinion be in that case?

                      Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance

                      RozR M TezT 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • RozR
                        Roz @MisterBoring
                        last edited by

                        @MisterBoring said in AI In Poses:

                        Question:

                        If you found out that a person was using ChatGPT to help write their poses in an effort to work past a physical limitation, what would your opinion be in that case?

                        what physical limitation would need chatGPT instead of actual tech accessibility tools??

                        she/her | playlist

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                        • M
                          Muscle Car @MisterBoring
                          last edited by Muscle Car

                          @MisterBoring That I’d always rather engage with a real person. That passion and creativity are always more important than getting an A from imaginary English teachers. That people who can’t look past typos or short posts aren’t worth one’s time. That no amount of for-fun amateur rp between pals can justify poisoning entire cities.

                          That you are enough, and you are welcome.

                          Got what you wanted, lost what you had.

                          MisterBoringM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • TezT
                            Tez Administrators @MisterBoring
                            last edited by

                            @MisterBoring I think it’s an interesting exercise but I’d want to talk to someone who does use it as such to understand how they use it and what the difference is for them and for others.

                            she/they

                            bear_necessitiesB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • bear_necessitiesB
                              bear_necessities @Tez
                              last edited by

                              @Tez I mean, please don’t take this in any way other than a legitimate question, but why should someone who utilizes a tool to work around a disability need to explain how they use that tool?

                              TezT PavelP 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • TezT
                                Tez Administrators @bear_necessities
                                last edited by

                                @bear_necessities You know what? You’re right. They shouldn’t have to. I’m just curious.

                                she/they

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • MisterBoringM
                                  MisterBoring @Muscle Car
                                  last edited by

                                  @Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:

                                  That’s I’d always rather engage with a real person. That passion and creativity are always more important than getting an A from imaginary English teachers. That people who can’t look past typos or short posts aren’t worth one’s time. That no amount of for-fun amateur rp between pals can justify poisoning entire cities.

                                  I agree with this, but at the same time, not recognizing AI’s use as an assistive tech seems demeaning to people with disabilities.

                                  @Roz

                                  I was referring to those people who are mentally fully functional, but have severe disabilities that tech assistive products only help part of the way. A person with cerebral palsy often times will not only be unable to type a full pose at a speed that allows them to maintain a respectable posing speed, but also will be unable to use voice recognition software because the same palsy makes their speech patterns indecipherable by the software.

                                  I am fully against people who are just being lazy using AI to help with posts, but after doing a lot of reading and talking to a few people I know who need assistive tech, I now recognize the value of LLMs for those people. (Though even my friends who use AI as assistive tech will admit that some of the responses it gives are quite insane and they have to use their best judgement to decide when to use it and when it’s just crazy.)

                                  Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance

                                  M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • PavelP
                                    Pavel @bear_necessities
                                    last edited by Pavel

                                    @bear_necessities said in AI In Poses:

                                    @Tez I mean, please don’t take this in any way other than a legitimate question, but why should someone who utilizes a tool to work around a disability need to explain how they use that tool?

                                    “I’d want” and “they need” aren’t the same thing, especially in this instance of talking about a thought experiment. I’d much rather a real person actually using the technology as an assistive one explain how and why than try to think up fictional scenarios that lead to apropos of nothing statements.

                                    ETA:

                                    So that I’m not misunderstood: A person absolutely doesn’t need to explain their disability to me or how they overcome/deal with it. When we are talking about using something as a disability treatment, assistant, or whatever I do want to hear from disabled people not half-baked conjecture from people who aren’t using the technology in such a way.

                                    He/Him. Opinions and views are solely my own unless specifically stated otherwise.
                                    BE AN ADULT

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                    • M
                                      Muscle Car @MisterBoring
                                      last edited by Muscle Car

                                      @MisterBoring There are worlds of incredible tools which allow accessibility of voice and text communication which have stood the test of time. As a workforce manager one of my jobs was ensuring all employees were, through software and hardware tools, to have equal footing with other workers. And those workers often also worked from home, but it was effectively invisible to the bosses when said workers were given and trained with the right tools.

                                      Important to note none of those tools require making a deal with the devil. I can’t feel the same about LLMs. Nobody owes an explanation for what they do until it crosses legal or etheical thresholds. City poisoning, thieving, lying machines with the capacity to induce suicides and murders in vulnerable parties are simply not on par with the many robust options which already exist.

                                      Got what you wanted, lost what you had.

                                      MisterBoringM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                      • AshkuriA
                                        Ashkuri @bear_necessities
                                        last edited by Ashkuri

                                        @bear_necessities said in AI In Poses:

                                        @KarmaBum This. At this point, if someone is secretly an AI? Fine. As long as they bring more spice to the table than “grim man in a trench coat who sighs meaningfully,”

                                        But it can’t “bring more spice” than that, lol. That’s exactly what it’s trained on. It is not technically possible for ChatGPT to excel at creativity, the best it can do is a mediocre average of all the writing it’s been fed, because that is how it works.

                                        But writing quality or lack thereof aside: There are already LLM/ChatGPT apps and services for role play out there. It will adore you. It will make you the star of the story. It will be on any time frame and theme that you want. It will make any changes you want.

                                        If we as a hobby aren’t using those services, then it’s because we decided there is something valuable about human interaction and responses that ChatGPT can’t replicate.

                                        Is it cool to enjoy human responses to your content while being unwilling to write human content for the other person?

                                        bear_necessitiesB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 7
                                        • bear_necessitiesB
                                          bear_necessities @Ashkuri
                                          last edited by

                                          @Ashkuri yeah I mean, I am mostly just on the side of the fence that we can’t really tell who is writing with LLMs and who just sucks at writing but it seems like this is a REALLY BIG DEAL when it… might not be? I’m definitely not saying that people should just RP with ChatGPT or that there isn’t something valuable in the human experience because I’m still playing MU*s to interact with you lot so clearly I want to be where the real people are. But I don’t particularly have the brain power to decide, or care, if you’re using LLMs to help you play with me as long as you’re fun to play with. And that’s me! And that’s fine! Not everyone has to think like me. Heck, I don’t even think like me a lot of the time 😄

                                          MisterBoringM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • MisterBoringM
                                            MisterBoring @Muscle Car
                                            last edited by

                                            @Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:

                                            Important to note none of those tools require making a deal with the devil.

                                            I think that also depends on where you live and your economic situation. ChatGPT may be the cheapest and least personally stressful option to some people in the face of their particular disabilities.

                                            Also, a lot of accessibility tools are now incorporating AI models into their installations because spinning off an AI model to learn a single user’s usage and behavoirs improves the software’s responsiveness and efficiency. There are dozens of articles out there discussing the topic.

                                            https://www.digitallearninginstitute.com/blog/revolutionising-accessibility:-the-role-of-ai-in-assistive-technology

                                            https://www.mdpi.com/2079-9292/11/7/1076

                                            Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance

                                            M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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