When is the last time you played?
-
@Testament said in When is the last time you played?:
Maybe, it’s just out of the vain hope that some ‘new hottness’ will appear and grab everyone’s attention like some games used to. And if for nothing else, the drama threads those games would create here. I never really played The Reach, but man did I love reading about it’s drama.
I don’t think it’s vain. I think it’s fair to say that we’ve gone from a constant stream of cool new hotness stuff to waves, and the time between the waves grows longer. Eventually though, I suspect it will be retro enough that it will make a big comeback.
-
Something could be the coolest, best, most interesting theme in the world, but if someone doesn’t engage with it, they’re going to be disappointed. I’ve had some of the most fun on games with themes that aren’t my favorite at all.
We’ve all seen the “waves” come and go, and honestly it comes down to the fact that a large amount of folks don’t take initiative to engage beyond “oh hey this is new and everyone’s here.” The amount of fun we have on these games is really pretty largely up to us, and it doesn’t require newness or hotness. It requires effort.
Of course if things don’t grab us, there’s no reason to force it, but this take has always been weird to me. Even in the “heyday” of MUSHes, you had to engage. Maybe we had more time or more energy or whatever the case may be (I certainly understand that for my own self), but the way to hook in has always remained the same.
-
I think we wear rose coloured glasses a lot of the time on MU*s that are pretty nostalgic and are waiting for that “spark” again. But I don’t think it’s the games itself? I miss the times where I played with my friends, and there’s just not a lot of places where my friends play anymore, and even if there was a game that was EXACTLY LIKE the game that I played before that I loved … I don’t think I’d stick. I’m not the same person I was even a year ago, and I just don’t have the energy or the time, and the time I do have I want to spend doing other things.
I just don’t think it has to do with the games that are available or the games that I used to play. Like there could be a carbon copy of the games I loved and everything could be the same but I am not the same anymore. If that makes sense.
-
@ham said in When is the last time you played?:
We’ve all seen the “waves” come and go, and honestly it comes down to the fact that a large amount of folks don’t take initiative to engage beyond “oh hey this is new and everyone’s here.” The amount of fun we have on these games is really pretty largely up to us, and it doesn’t require newness or hotness. It requires effort.
I do wonder what everyone is waiting for, really. Like we’ve had in however many years since Arx ended multiple L&L games, fantasy games, supernatural games, steampunk games, WoD games, and they either don’t pop off or it does pop off and then the activity plummets and the game dies. And games die for many reasons but I think a big one is what you said - people don’t take initiative to engage, and everyone just keeps waiting on someone else to Do Something, and when everyone is waiting around, no one does anything, and the staff can’t keep up with constant demands to Do Stuff so they get burned out and yeah.
-
@ham said in When is the last time you played?:
The amount of fun we have on these games is really pretty largely up to us, and it doesn’t require newness or hotness. It requires effort.
I agree with this. My experience is very different from a lot of folks here, I think. I make my own fun, and it doesn’t take a whole lot of people to do it with. I’m choosy about which games I play on, but once I choose a game? I’m usually there until they turn the lights off. (And on several occasions have spun off into sandboxes or sequel games to keep going even after that).
@Testament said in When is the last time you played?:
And with many people moving to play-by-post(like what Ares does and I say that with no hate),
Ares lets people play how they wish to play. Yes there are many MU*ers who prefer async, but you only have to find a couple like-minded folks to get a healthy chunk of trad/live scenes going.
-
@ham said in When is the last time you played?:
The amount of fun we have on these games is really pretty largely up to us, and it doesn’t require newness or hotness. It requires effort.
Totally true. Newness and hotness are optional. They can definitely help some times, but if nobody puts in effort, no fun is had.
-
@bear_necessities said in When is the last time you played?:
everyone just keeps waiting on someone else to Do Something, and when everyone is waiting around, no one does anything, and the staff can’t keep up with constant demands to Do Stuff so they get burned out and yeah.
This is why I really admire both the tabletop GMs and mush GMs that are able to carry a story to completion. Like, goddamn, you guys are so powerful.
I think smaller, punchier games benefit from having a set lifespan. Think of the lifespan of all those Discord RP groups out there. So many unfinished threads…
-
@Yam idk. sometimes I think we just as a community need to stop expecting one person to hold all the story on their shoulders. Maybe a lot more people would build games if they thought that the community would tell stories with them instead of them having to tell stories for everyone? I’ve thought about that a lot. I mean I’d love to run a game and have 10,000 ideas, but I don’t have the dedicated story teller time.
-
@bear_necessities Probably people would play more, too, if they thought that people would tell stories with them instead of having to convince somebody to tell stories for them.
-
Has anyone seen a system that effectively incentivizes players to run things for other players?
I ask because my pals have mused on these kinds of systems but my only perspective is like… I run scenes because I want to run them. Extra XP or perks don’t really factor in for me.
Maybe a better question… have incentives encouraged you to run scenes when you normally wouldn’t?
-
@Yam I thought y’all did a great job of trying to encourage that at City of Glass by making them one possible way to earn points each week… I’m not sure it really encouraged me to run things more than I would have anyway, because I typically try to run stuff semi-regularly.
But, it did encourage me to do it outside the wheelhouse of my comfort zone somewhat. I almost never play characters that aren’t running at least small stuff for friends, sometimes bigger stuff for larger groups, too. That was the first game where I actually put stuff up as events without knowing ahead of time who or how many would be interested.
So, I’m not sure the incentives really caused me as a player to run anything more than what I usually would have run, but it encouraged me to be braver about doing it with a wider net.
-
I fell off of MUs a couple of years ago. I keep up on this forum to see if anything catches my attention (and for the hot goss when I need a mental palette cleanser at work lol). I’ll occasionally give something a try for a few days, but so far, nothing much has managed to keep my attention long enough for my limited energy and time to go towards it.
@ham said in When is the last time you played?:
Something could be the coolest, best, most interesting theme in the world, but if someone doesn’t engage with it, they’re going to be disappointed. I’ve had some of the most fun on games with themes that aren’t my favorite at all.
We’ve all seen the “waves” come and go, and honestly it comes down to the fact that a large amount of folks don’t take initiative to engage beyond “oh hey this is new and everyone’s here.” The amount of fun we have on these games is really pretty largely up to us, and it doesn’t require newness or hotness. It requires effort.
Of course if things don’t grab us, there’s no reason to force it, but this take has always been weird to me. Even in the “heyday” of MUSHes, you had to engage. Maybe we had more time or more energy or whatever the case may be (I certainly understand that for my own self), but the way to hook in has always remained the same.
Bolded for emphasis, but I think this is probably largely the problem, and it’s something I’ve seen in RPE and RPI MUDs, as well as Tabletop RPGS - the expectation that the vast minority (staff, creative players, GMs/DMs, etc.) will exist as load-bearing structures for the entire cognitive workload that goes into creating cool stories.
Which I understand.
Folks (today and historically, in my experience) want to consume content, but they don’t necessarily want to create it (or they don’t think they can). Players won’t play an RPI if it’s “dead” (ie, doesn’t have more than 10 people on during peak hours) or unless there’s "Metaplot: (ie, Staff creating plot and events) to go alongside their MMO grinding. Players in TTRPGs frequently won’t try anything but the standard “Spoonfeed Me A Story” games like D&D, unless you drag them kicking and screaming into a more collaborative game.
I don’t really know of a way to accommodate for that besides pushing for cultural change. I’ve seen people mention incentivizing this behavior, and that might work. But I also think people will tend to see it as “unfair” that someone “gets an edge” over them for creating plots, or will see it as a form of gatekeeping. Which is fine, it just means you have to be willing to tell the people who complain about that “hey you are welcome to play here, but we aren’t changing this, so you probably should either learn to adjust to this, or find a new game”.
I never had any real trouble finding fun on games, because I make my own. It’s moreso that very little draws my attention in anymore, or feels worth the time investment to get involved with, in an increasingly stressful and exhausting to navigate world. So I’d rather just do a little one shot for my friends, or work on a campaign, or something.
-
@Yam said in When is the last time you played?:
Has anyone seen a system that effectively incentivizes players to run things for other players?
I don’t think this works, like, at a human nature level. People are generally not motivated to volunteer for things because you offer them peanuts. They might be motivated by altruism (it’s good for others) or self-interest (if everyone pitches in, I also get to play and have fun), or genuine enjoyment. But I don’t think most folks are going to be meaningfully motivated to do something hard by a tiny carrot.
(I’m not saying you can’t reward someone to make them feel appreciated, just that it’s not an effective motivational tool on its own.)
-
@Yam At least for me, it’s less about incentives and more about what I’m allowed to do without a whole bunch of paperwork.
Some games are like “as long as you don’t blow up the city or use specific NPCs, run all the scenes”. Other games say “most things are fine, but just reach out if you’re concerned”. And then even others restrict further with, “anything beyond Bar RP requires a detailed submission with a questionnaire and approval from the entire staff team”.
I definitely enjoy running scenes in those first two types of games and will do so frequently for anyone interested. Like, let’s run into a spooky clown monster in the alley or accidentally come across a secret ghost cult in a basement. Admittedly, I will do these spur of the moment and make things up along the way. People usually seem to have fun.
The latter game, I will probably not run scenes on. I don’t want to have to wait a week or month or so to run a silly one shot that will (probably) not have an effect on the setting.
-
@catzilla said in When is the last time you played?:
run a silly one shot that will (probably) not have an effect on the setting.
so, curious, how could a game get you to run a plot that could have an effect on the setting, affect the metaplot or change the world in some sort of way? Is it just as simple as keeping that “You can do whatever you want here as long as it doesn’t break the world” on the tin or would you need something else?
-
@bear_necessities said in When is the last time you played?:
@catzilla said in When is the last time you played?:
run a silly one shot that will (probably) not have an effect on the setting.
so, curious, how could a game get you to run a plot that could have an effect on the setting, affect the metaplot or change the world in some sort of way? Is it just as simple as keeping that “You can do whatever you want here as long as it doesn’t break the world” on the tin or would you need something else?
I’m not @catzilla but here’s my list:
- Don’t yell at me for doing it.
- No OOCly hidden lore. On a personal level, I become a lot (A LOT) less likely to run things once I feel like there’s a chance I’ll step on the metaplot’s toes or trip over hidden lore that I don’t know and therefore don’t know to account for. Gives me Big anxiety. I might be the only one!
- Work with me to figure out HOW it will change the world. Don’t just stick the results in the memory hole, OR make all the consequences bad ones. I’m not going to run things if “change the world” always means “screw over the PCs or make the world worse”.
- Honestly, just…work with me. I’d love to have staff to talk with plots about, brainstorm with, or just have an idea of things they’d like to see PCs have opportunities to do.
Give me those things, and I am a plot-running bunny. It doesn’t take anything else (other than the things that I need to “hook” into a game in the first place), but I will admit that I do like bennies. I don’t think XP is the best idea, but it’s nice to get. Even something that’s totally OOC like players saying, “Hey, that was fun,” and, er, actually showing up, on time, ready to play the plot that was advertised? That works.
