MU Peeves Thread
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@Kestrel said in MU Peeves Thread:
And then there is also the very alarming trend I can’t help but note of people dressing up all kinds of transparently abusive behaviour as “kink” and then expecting that to exempt them from criticism, or to let them reframe such criticism as immoral and tantamount to queerphobia or whatever. Many kinks, even when “consensual” in the most technical sense of the word, are in fact exploitative and prey on the low self-esteem and poor mental health of vulnerable individuals who need help and not an enabler. I feel comfortable judging someone who feels the need to control or dominate someone who’s never learned to say “no” or to consider their own wants beyond pleasing other people as a source of self-worth. I also can’t help but notice that a lot of these “consensual, happy, this is just our kink guys” D/s couples end a couple years down the line with a traumatised victim coming out and finally admitting they were pressured into it and abused. Damn, who could’ve predicted that someone whose whole shtick is needing to control other people, and whose preference is for people who don’t talk back, would’ve turned out to be a piece of shit.
Yeah, sorry, this is a big yikes on my end. You’re taking abusive relationships and masquerading it ‘this is what the kink community is like’. And that just comes off as on one hand making large blanket statements, and second, awfully sounds pretty disingenuous towards the couples that have rather healthy relationships that incorporate some aspect of kink into their lifestyle.
By no means what you’ve described doesn’t happen. It has, but it’s not fair that to state that this is all it is. I could go into some massive diatribe on how if going to be done respectfully with everyone’s needs being taken in mind, that plenty of conversations need to happen before anything happens.
Maybe that’s just me, and clearly my experiences have been drastically different, but for my time apart of it, I’ve seen the opposite happen more often than not. I simply whole-heartedly disagree that what you’re describing is all it is some large ruse to allow abusers and manipulators free reign while being able to get away by having a useful excuse for their terrible behavior.
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I may be wrong, but I didn’t read what @Kestrel wrote as a description of some widespread conspiracy but more that there’s folks out there who want to manipulate sexual openness to their own advantage.
It’s unfortunate, but there’s bad actors in all forms of life.
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I guess we are a real MU forum, now.
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@Pavel said in MU Peeves Thread:
I guess we are a real MU forum, now.
Is friendship bad?
Let’s discuss social combat!
WoD, mage sphere, amirite?
ARRRRRRX
(there’s an Arx thread get out)
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@tsar said in MU Peeves Thread:
@Pavel said in MU Peeves Thread:
I guess we are a real MU forum, now.
Is friendship bad?
Let’s discuss social combat!
WoD, mage sphere, amirite?
ARRRRRRX
(there’s an Arx thread get out)
Someone post the image, I’m at work.
I don't know what I'm doing. Poke at Seven Nations sevennations.aresmush.com port 2021
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@Testament You rang?
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I think unfortunately rp around sexual or relationship themes and practices regardless of what they are will always be ripe for manipulation and abuse. I find either extreme (more kinky/prudish than thou) to be especially vulnerable to that and seeing lots of ooc public declarations about it on chan/chat/ooc in room will make me avoid either person because its a huge red flag for me and makes me uncomfortable.
I find the considerate people keep everything in the appropriate spaces/stay out of the labeled spaces they know that they don’t want to be in.
If someone isn’t capable of that discernment I don’t find them to be a player I will feel comfortable around. I don’t care what they’re into or not.
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My today MU peeve is the DO NOT ARX. It’s a MU. If someone mentions something outside the thread it usually lives in, it’s gonna be ok
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@Snackness I’ll arx if I want to
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In my experience, abusers are going to be abusive regardless of what community, culture, or system they’re in. They will find ways to bend the rules and norms of that setting to their advantage, as well as to blame those they abuse for somehow being at fault for what was done to them. And this is true for any kind of abuse, although sexual abuse is the most egregious.
The key to minimizing this is making it clear from the outset that it’s not acceptable by the broader community as a whole, then enforcing this mandate regularly and consistently when it’s uncovered that oh, hey, surprise, this abusive person is a piece of shit. Officially, yes, but also unofficially, with a general aura of “You fuckers are not welcome here.” that is present from start to finish.
It’s not perfect, not by any means, but no system is and I think it’s the only way to balance the fact that everyone’s experiences, preferences, and desires are their own and that no one else really has the right to dictate that for others, save those who cannot possibly consent for whatever reason.
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the standard on mu* should just be “don’t do weird shit in public” but that will never be enough because social norms somehow go out the window in text and we have to parse everything to death
just don’t do weird shit to people you don’t know, pals
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boners rn
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@helvetica look what you’ve done
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Telling somebody to stop slut shaming isn’t prude shaming. “Vampire is a game with sexual themes baked in, so if you’re not comfortable with sexual themes, you probably shouldn’t play vampire because even the base sourcebook’s pictures will make you uncomfortable” is also not prude shaming.
People shouldn’t play things that make them uncomfortable, but they also shouldn’t try and keep other people from playing those things, as long as they’re doing so in places designated for them, and the existence of places designated for such things is not actually a slight against the prudish.
From my perspective, unwanted sexual attention/pressure on games gets people permabanned faster than anything else. It is a Problem and it is a problem that usually gets dealt with VERY swiftly by even the bad staffers (barring, you know, places like Haven). It is a huge no-no, and consent around this stuff is REALLY important. Yes, there are bad actors. There are bad actors everywhere.
That doesn’t make it ok to slut shame, or to imply that everyone who participates in kink culture is a fucking predator.
If you’re playing in environments where people are competing to show off their kink and flaming people for being prudes, get off Haven. I thought you quit. That shit still ain’t acceptable in polite society, and on normal games it isn’t.
If anyone is dealing with unwanted sexual pressure on a mush, go to staff. If staff do not squish it, leave the game. Now. If you need help or talking points or a pep-talk or anything at all like that, let me know. Let somebody you trust know. I can almost guarantee that no non sexmu* staffer worth their salt wants the kink olympics on their game in public with a side of prude shaming. Like, nobody. Nobody wants that anywhere except Haven or Shang. Even on Shang you’ll get lit on fire for harassment (or you used to; idk what enforcement there is like these days).
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@IoleRae Wait. Wait wait wait. Are we literally talking about sex games in these complaints? Bc that’s disingenuous af.
Understandable, have a nice day.
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Haven isn’t technically a sex game afaik, it’s just got the worst staff this side of the Mississippi that is grossly, abhorrently abusive. Kestrel keeps going back and then making a pikachu face when it turns out to be just as bad this time as it was last time. Idk if that’s the game they’re talking about right now, but since they said they were experiencing this on a mu*, that’s pretty much the only game I know of where the kink olympics shit goes down. shrughands. Oh, maybe City of Hope. Don’t play on City of Hope, gawd. It’s the Dark Metal of the 2010s and 2020s, except replace the cyberpunk with uncomfortable sex.
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So are we gonna pretend MUSHes haven’t seen a parade of race fetishists, 7’0 buff Daddy dom pregnancy fetishists with their tiny pixie subs, furries etc. over the years?
What I’m talking about happens everywhere, online and in real life.
I don’t endorse slut-shaming; I simply think it’s a virtually non-existent bogeyman under the stairs compared to the uncritical normalisation of kink culture in everyday life, and the shaming of anyone who ever has the audacity to criticise it or to simply not want to partake in it.
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All of this feels like such a weird conversation of extremes. And it feels very much like extremes born of personal hurt and a reaction to the shape that particular experience took for individuals.
For one thing, posts have gotten characterized as “pro-kink” that just read to me as people generally wanting consensual exploration of sexual RP to be okay, which to me is not really about being pro-kink or anti-kink.
Abuse on MU*s happens on both ends of this spectrum. When purity culture is more rampant, than victims end up controlled by threats of exposure for engaging in dirty behavior. When extremes of sex positive becomes the norm, then yes, abusers will instead use the idea of “acceptance” to abuse consent. As @Aria said, abusers will use whatever tools are available to them.
I find the idea that we are somehow in a post-slut-shaming society or whatever to be pretty questionable when I see it happen right in front of my face. But, like, I think the only game I’ve stepped foot on that had a high kink or fetish level was Shang, the literal sex game with a literal system to record kinks, and I’ve been in and out of the hobby for a couple decades. It’s not the case that it’s a universal MU* experience to see a parade of fetish on games; it very much has depended on where you’re playing.
ETA: also what did the furries even do
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FWIW I wasn’t talking about sex MUSHes and I’ve never experienced a game where kinks that are being described are happening publically and that wasn’t even my peeve. We’ve gone way off course now though so IDEK what the peeve is anymore lol
