AI In Poses
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@somasatori said in AI In Poses:
I have a question. What do you get out of MUSHing, a hobby wherein you write paragraphs at people in a turn-based format, when you’re not actually doing the writing? What’s the end goal there?
I’ve had this conversation with more than a few people and one of the most common themes that came up: an experience as close to tabletop gaming as possible, but without being crapped on because of not being able to put out AP English writing or wait 20 minutes per exchange for all the editing.
MU*ers can be catty, judgemental, petty, elitist, etc… to a higher degree than any I’ve ever known, probably to do with internet anonymity, which is one of the reasons the hobby continues to grow smaller and smaller. I’ve never known a community so highly motivated/invested in killing itself off as intensely as this one, and I’ve known some pretty shitty communities in my life (I’m old… er now.)
People show up to MU*s for very different reasons and it sometimes seems like a large number of people assume that everyone else around them is there for the exact same reason as them then get frustrated/confused when they don’t play the way they would.
I’ve had the conversation on other threads, so I won’t get into it again here if people reply back to tell me all the ways I’m wrong, but taking a tool that improves writing and using it on text based game seems like it would be a godsend to cure many of the ills that people have complained endlessly about for decades - bad writing, lack of storytellers, no interesting plots.
But to each, their own. People will feel how they feel about it and that’s okay, I guess. Its just sad for me cause I loved this hobby and I really thought this might actually put some life back into it, like CPR. So it was disappointing/sad/whatever when all the villagers pointed at the thing that could bring someone back to life thereby improving the outlook/prosperity of the entire community, called it a witch, and want it burned at the stake.
ETA: Not for nothing, but to go along with the analogy, some non-small portion of the thread is basically a witch hunt - with dubious degrees of accuracy.
@Pavel said in AI In Poses:
I can understand people using it as a translator.
I know you mean that it takes Spanish and makes it English. But it seems like that also could apply to taking Shitty English and translating that to English.
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There are people that I played with for years who are so boring, so uncreative, so repetitive and lacking spark that - by the metrics above - they are definitely being controlled by an LLM. There are times that my own writing is so flat that I would be less embarrassed if ChatGPT had written it.
While I don’t particularly want to RP with a robot, I don’t have space in my brain to start worrying about whether or not someone I’m writing with is now or has ever been an AI.
^ part of that reply was written by ChatGPT
…or was it?!
On Dragon Wings · https://pern.gaslightswitch.com · pern.gaslightswitch.com port 4201
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@KarmaBum This. At this point, if someone is secretly an AI? Fine. As long as they bring more spice to the table than “grim man in a trench coat who sighs meaningfully,” they can beep-boop their way right into my scene.
^ I might’ve also written part of this with AI. Or not. Who knows? It doesn’t matter. Just be interesting.
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@Warma-Sheen said in AI In Poses:
I’ve had the conversation on other threads, so I won’t get into it again here if people reply back to tell me all the ways I’m wrong, but taking a tool that improves writing and using it on text based game seems like it would be a godsend to cure many of the ills that people have complained endlessly about for decades - bad writing, lack of storytellers, no interesting plots.
Let’s grant for a second that these are ills that ChatGPT (and other LLMs, but based on the stats, it’s ChatGPT) can cure.
Genuinely, if I can have a better time engaging with content from ChatGPT, then why do I need the other person in the loop at all? Because their (evidently) poorly-written self is somehow so much better and more effective at prompting than I am? Because I enjoy the randomness of whatever they might happen to throw at it? Why is the other person involved here? Why should I wait for them to pose back to me instead of asking ChatGPT myself? Someone explain it to me.
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Until AI stops being tremendously and irreversibly environmentally destructive, and until it stops feeding money, growth and encouragement to the most evil people on the planet I see no need to make excuses for it. Maybe I’m a relative Luddite, but maybe that’s okay.
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RPing with chatgpt is masturbation without the fun parts.
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Question:
If you found out that a person was using ChatGPT to help write their poses in an effort to work past a physical limitation, what would your opinion be in that case?
Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance
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@MisterBoring said in AI In Poses:
Question:
If you found out that a person was using ChatGPT to help write their poses in an effort to work past a physical limitation, what would your opinion be in that case?
what physical limitation would need chatGPT instead of actual tech accessibility tools??
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@MisterBoring That I’d always rather engage with a real person. That passion and creativity are always more important than getting an A from imaginary English teachers. That people who can’t look past typos or short posts aren’t worth one’s time. That no amount of for-fun amateur rp between pals can justify poisoning entire cities.
That you are enough, and you are welcome.
Got what you wanted, lost what you had.
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@MisterBoring I think it’s an interesting exercise but I’d want to talk to someone who does use it as such to understand how they use it and what the difference is for them and for others.
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@Tez I mean, please don’t take this in any way other than a legitimate question, but why should someone who utilizes a tool to work around a disability need to explain how they use that tool?
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@bear_necessities You know what? You’re right. They shouldn’t have to. I’m just curious.
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@Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:
That’s I’d always rather engage with a real person. That passion and creativity are always more important than getting an A from imaginary English teachers. That people who can’t look past typos or short posts aren’t worth one’s time. That no amount of for-fun amateur rp between pals can justify poisoning entire cities.
I agree with this, but at the same time, not recognizing AI’s use as an assistive tech seems demeaning to people with disabilities.
I was referring to those people who are mentally fully functional, but have severe disabilities that tech assistive products only help part of the way. A person with cerebral palsy often times will not only be unable to type a full pose at a speed that allows them to maintain a respectable posing speed, but also will be unable to use voice recognition software because the same palsy makes their speech patterns indecipherable by the software.
I am fully against people who are just being lazy using AI to help with posts, but after doing a lot of reading and talking to a few people I know who need assistive tech, I now recognize the value of LLMs for those people. (Though even my friends who use AI as assistive tech will admit that some of the responses it gives are quite insane and they have to use their best judgement to decide when to use it and when it’s just crazy.)
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@bear_necessities said in AI In Poses:
@Tez I mean, please don’t take this in any way other than a legitimate question, but why should someone who utilizes a tool to work around a disability need to explain how they use that tool?
“I’d want” and “they need” aren’t the same thing, especially in this instance of talking about a thought experiment. I’d much rather a real person actually using the technology as an assistive one explain how and why than try to think up fictional scenarios that lead to apropos of nothing statements.
ETA:
So that I’m not misunderstood: A person absolutely doesn’t need to explain their disability to me or how they overcome/deal with it. When we are talking about using something as a disability treatment, assistant, or whatever I do want to hear from disabled people not half-baked conjecture from people who aren’t using the technology in such a way.
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@MisterBoring There are worlds of incredible tools which allow accessibility of voice and text communication which have stood the test of time. As a workforce manager one of my jobs was ensuring all employees were, through software and hardware tools, to have equal footing with other workers. And those workers often also worked from home, but it was effectively invisible to the bosses when said workers were given and trained with the right tools.
Important to note none of those tools require making a deal with the devil. I can’t feel the same about LLMs. Nobody owes an explanation for what they do until it crosses legal or etheical thresholds. City poisoning, thieving, lying machines with the capacity to induce suicides and murders in vulnerable parties are simply not on par with the many robust options which already exist.
Got what you wanted, lost what you had.
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@bear_necessities said in AI In Poses:
@KarmaBum This. At this point, if someone is secretly an AI? Fine. As long as they bring more spice to the table than “grim man in a trench coat who sighs meaningfully,”
But it can’t “bring more spice” than that, lol. That’s exactly what it’s trained on. It is not technically possible for ChatGPT to excel at creativity, the best it can do is a mediocre average of all the writing it’s been fed, because that is how it works.
But writing quality or lack thereof aside: There are already LLM/ChatGPT apps and services for role play out there. It will adore you. It will make you the star of the story. It will be on any time frame and theme that you want. It will make any changes you want.
If we as a hobby aren’t using those services, then it’s because we decided there is something valuable about human interaction and responses that ChatGPT can’t replicate.
Is it cool to enjoy human responses to your content while being unwilling to write human content for the other person?
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@Ashkuri yeah I mean, I am mostly just on the side of the fence that we can’t really tell who is writing with LLMs and who just sucks at writing but it seems like this is a REALLY BIG DEAL when it… might not be? I’m definitely not saying that people should just RP with ChatGPT or that there isn’t something valuable in the human experience because I’m still playing MU*s to interact with you lot so clearly I want to be where the real people are. But I don’t particularly have the brain power to decide, or care, if you’re using LLMs to help you play with me as long as you’re fun to play with. And that’s me! And that’s fine! Not everyone has to think like me. Heck, I don’t even think like me a lot of the time
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@Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:
Important to note none of those tools require making a deal with the devil.
I think that also depends on where you live and your economic situation. ChatGPT may be the cheapest and least personally stressful option to some people in the face of their particular disabilities.
Also, a lot of accessibility tools are now incorporating AI models into their installations because spinning off an AI model to learn a single user’s usage and behavoirs improves the software’s responsiveness and efficiency. There are dozens of articles out there discussing the topic.
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@bear_necessities said in AI In Poses:
we can’t really tell who is writing with LLMs and who just sucks at writing
I suck at writing. I will admit it here. The only part of writing I’m good at is spelling. Actually making sense, or writing interesting poses is where I’m a giant failure.
However, all of my bad poses and stuff are purely typed by hand.
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@MisterBoring The integration of “AI” into every single piece of software is personally abhorrent and will be looked back on with regret, mark my words. Further, if the service is free, you are the product. PAYING to be the product stretches that into the absurd.
I think my last point to make here is the simplest; I have NEVER turned down someone for RP when they said something like, “Forgive my English, it’s not my native language,” or “My poses are slow, is that okay?” I show them humanity and care, I feel special they chose me to spend time with. I will never feel compelled morally or socially to treat software with humanity. Especially when it’s so environmentally and socially repugnant.
