Strike Systems

MisterBoring

“If you wouldn’t invite them into your living room why would you invite them into your game?”

I can also think of people that I regularly invite to my living room that I would never invite to a MU I was running. They’re wonderful people, but tend to try and hog the spotlight in RP.

SockMonkey

@MisterBoring True! Granted, I’m a hobbit and keep to myself so it’s less literal for me too. It still helped put things into perspective as far as why I’d bend over backwards to accommodate someone online when I wouldn’t do that irl.

Tez

@Roz

somasatori

@Jumpscare said in Strike Systems:

Some people can change. Others can’t.

Man, at this point I’m willing to believe that we’re all pretty firmly set in our behavioral ways when it comes to MUSHing and would argue that most, if not all, people in the hobby will resist changing. This might be due to my WoD-brain. It seems like the vast majority of the WoD MUSH sphere of influence has operated with deeply flawed and bad actors for such a long time that there’s this assumption that having the worst possible personality traits manifest and cause problems are just part of the hobby.

Look at any recent shitty MUSH drama and you’ll see ghosts of the past in there. Recently I saw a game give a lot of chances to a player that multiple people insisted was different, had changed, etc., when they were up the same old shit in private. From overstepping boundaries to people on weird narcissistic power trips to people attempting to manipulate others for their own personal gain, it’s this long series of intergenerational MUSH trauma that’s persisted. And not to be a doomer, but it will likely persist until the end of the hobby because there’s this psychological ecosystem that provides a kind of parasocial and quasi-social connection where very emotionally abused people think this kind of behavior is normal from your text-based friends.

Yam

@somasatori said in Strike Systems:

@Jumpscare said in Strike Systems:

Some people can change. Others can’t.

Man, at this point I’m willing to believe that we’re all pretty firmly set in our behavioral ways when it comes to MUSHing and would argue that most, if not all, people in the hobby will resist changing.

I’m inclined to agree. I’m curious if anyone has actually legitimately witnessed a fundamental change in someone with regards to MUSH behavior, perhaps due to some fallout, maybe in the form of banning or lost friends.

Muscle Car

@somasatori They’re institutionalized. I remember being shocked that Sun introduced back into Lib three prior problem players, telling us on public channels to “give them a chance,” and being more shocked how it was just accepted (and dissent coldly shut down). All three players raised hell after a couple weeks of playing nice. At some point it becomes engineered failure.

There are some people who only feel at home in conflict and feel alienated in places of sense and order, so they manufacture conflict in order to feel in their element. Players and staff can succumb to it, but when it’s a lifestyle, not an accident, there’s little to be done but find greener pastures or a new means to enjoy the hobby.

Ashkuri

@Yam said in Strike Systems:

I’m curious if anyone has actually legitimately witnessed a fundamental change in someone with regards to MUSH behavior

I have encountered:

People behaving very differently to me from one game to another game, in that the game structures and communities themselves brought out the best or worst of that person
People making a big effort to change their toxic MU behavior after fucking up so bad that they realized they need to get their house in order. This would probably be the ‘lost friends’ or fallout aspect you mentioned above
People who went on mental health medication and/or therapy and as a result developed more community-friendly and cooperative patterns in their MU spaces

Third Eye

@Yam said in Strike Systems:

I’m inclined to agree. I’m curious if anyone has actually legitimately witnessed a fundamental change in someone with regards to MUSH behavior, perhaps due to some fallout, maybe in the form of banning or lost friends.

I’ve seen people change both for the better and, unfortunately, the worse. In the ‘better’ case it took years and major life changes, not any MU punishment.

L. B. Heuschkel

@Juniper said in Strike Systems:

@Rucket said in Strike Systems:

At this point if I ran a game and someone spoke some right wing shit id ban them.

Amen to that.

“A-bloo-boo-hoo, freedom of speech, blah blah”
Nah. Go away. I’m tired of playing how far they can boil the frog before there’s a problem.

Not going to lie here: I like to think myself pretty open-minded, but I too object to being slow boiled like a frog. Don’t be pushing around Overton windows on my game.

It’s fine to discuss politics. It’s not fine to propagandize – and while I won’t ban you for being right-wing, I somehow don’t think you’re going to feel very welcome in the general community. Most of us are too fed up with this shit.

L. B. Heuschkel

@Yam said in Strike Systems:

I’m curious if anyone has actually legitimately witnessed a fundamental change in someone with regards to MUSH behavior, perhaps due to some fallout, maybe in the form of banning or lost friends.

Yes. On several games. But to no one’s surprise whatsoever, those people who do learn and reform also tend to keep very quiet about it, in order to leave the past well buried.

MisterBoring

@L-B-Heuschkel said in Strike Systems:

those people who do learn and reform also tend to keep very quiet about it, in order to leave the past well buried.

I think honestly that’s probably for the best, as constantly going “Remember when I was a total asshole 2 years ago and I took some time to myself and fixed it?” isn’t a good flex in it’s own right.

somasatori

@L-B-Heuschkel said in Strike Systems:

It’s fine to discuss politics. It’s not fine to propagandize –

At this point in our digital society, any discussion of politics in a mixed space is vociferous propaganda. No one is changing their ideological opinions based on an Internet conversation. Discussions about politics are only civil when a) everyone agrees with what someone is saying; b) everyone is silent or ignores the topic in the general hope that it goes away; or c) everyone has been friends for many years and knows each other’s politics, which largely predate their friendship. Option c is becoming a rarity these days.

RIP Max Horkheimer, you would have loved to hate the Web 2.0 era internet.

Edit: the above applies to discussions about United States politics and may not apply to other countries.

L. B. Heuschkel

@somasatori With a lot of international players, we do see discussions that are genuine discussions. But they’re between people who disagree on fairly minor issues – not from either extreme. Frankly, I don’t think that gap is bridgeable anymore, and I’m not sure it should be even attempted.

MisterBoring

@somasatori said in Strike Systems:

No one is changing their ideological opinions based on an ~~Internet~~ conversation.

I really feel like the majority of people (in the US at least) are locked into their opinions (ideological or not) up until the point something happens to them that flies in the face of those opinions or beliefs. A guy I went to high school with was very right-wing leaning in ideology, had a lot of family in agriculture, and mostly voted Republican across the board (he regularly votes for legalization of marijuana, so there have been exceptions).

That all changed this year when a big part of his family suddenly defaulted on a bunch of their farm loans because of government shenanigans and now his aunt and uncle are living on his couch. He changed his registered party and is now willing to hear any arguments that aren’t Republican ones and vote based on that. He also started noticing a lot of stuff people have been pointing out to him for decades and realizing it’s true.