Tough Calls
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@L-B-Heuschkel said in Tough Calls:
The shorter and more concise it is, the less attempts to rules lawyer out of trouble.
Totally agree that the more specific situations you try to address, the more problem players will argue that they didn’t break the specific rules to try to argue that they should remain.
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@Yam said in Tough Calls:
I’d like to hear some experiences from staffers that have had to make the tough call to ban what they’d consider problematic players, or players that were simply not a good fit.
Hi.
I used to be a very evidence-based staffer. When I was on Firan’s player management staff, we would create logs, records, have observers that would follow people around and stalk them, and all of this shit was normalized. You had to create a legal case for banning someone.
That informed my approach for years. Then I saw on Arx that you don’t HAVE to do this, and it was like the heavens opened and I saw the light.
What factored into your decision?
I’m pretty unashamedly vibe-based now. If someone gives me bad vibes, then I don’t fucking have the time for this. My ass is tired. It’s 2025.
How did you approach it? Did you consult with other staffers?
I tend to staff in groups. When someone gives me bad vibes, I flag it immediately to the group. I’m usually one of the first people in the group to flag someone, so often I get told to wait – but I don’t think there has been a case on recent games where I flagged someone that we didn’t end up later banning, or else they distanced after a warning.
Once someone gives me bad vibes, I tend to watch them a bit more critically. However, it’s not a case where I’m building a case against them with documented evidence. I’m often the person who actually confronts the person and bans them, bc my anxiety is so medicated, or else I just feel more confident in the fact that I do have the power in that situation.
I mean, that’s real. I can’t lie. I have the power to decide where I want to spend my energy, and I don’t want to spend it on them. So I ask them to leave.
Did you receive any backlash? Did you set aside time to discuss the ban with them or did you simply notify and ban?
I don’t recall receiving much backlash from other players about any bans. I am somewhat sensitive to the fact that I might not receive public backlash on this forum, either, because I am a mod here. I plan to resign as a mod the next time I run the game, because it does feel a little squidgy to me.
I have received backlash for some policies I pushed for: particularly policies around avoiding oversharing on public channels. I’ve been called ableist, etc. But not for a ban.
I don’t tend to discuss bans with players being banned. It’s very much a ‘you have 15 minutes to grab anything you need, goodbye.’ I don’t feel it’s a good use of my time and energy to engage in prolonged discussion.
I do sometimes receive backlash in that time from the player being banned, where they get on public channels to protest rather than speaking with me privately. That’s their choice.
Did you issue warnings?
I have cautioned people on behavior that could, if not corrected, eventually lead to a ban, so I GUESS I issue warnings, but not in the manner I used to. We used to have this idea that someone had to have three strikes of warnings before they would be banned. Thank god I don’t do that anymore.
Did it result in a healthier atmosphere, a worse atmosphere, or something else?
I’m reluctant to answer this question. I think we are somewhat blind to the results of our actions. I’d be more interested to hear how players would answer this.
It resulted in less stress for me, though.
she/they
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@Tez said in Tough Calls:
I have cautioned people on behavior that could, if not corrected, eventually lead to a ban, so I GUESS I issue warnings, but not in the manner I used to
Not that I want to accuse you of impropriety or anything, but do you find that you’re more willing to caution/counsel people with whom you’ve already established a rapport or relationship vs a relative unknown?
I ask only because I very much do feel that way; I’d be much more inclined to tell you, for instance, to knock it off vs someone I don’t know who’d just get a boot. I know it’s a bias that some would object to but I also tend to avoid staffing these days, precisely because I know my own biases enough to know I can’t be bothered.
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@Pavel said in Tough Calls:
@Tez said in Tough Calls:
I have cautioned people on behavior that could, if not corrected, eventually lead to a ban, so I GUESS I issue warnings, but not in the manner I used to
Not that I want to accuse you of impropriety or anything, but do you find that you’re more willing to caution/counsel people with whom you’ve already established a rapport or relationship vs a relative unknown?
I ask only because I very much do feel that way; I’d be much more inclined to tell you, for instance, to knock it off vs someone I don’t know who’d just get a boot. I know it’s a bias that some would object to but I also tend to avoid staffing these days, precisely because I know my own biases enough to know I can’t be bothered.
That’s actually a really interesting point. You’re totally right. I would tell my friends to knock shit off in a way where it doesn’t register as a warning as such to my brain – which probably makes me more likely to do so.
I just don’t have the same sense of needing to be cautious or delicate with them, because I know that they will take what I say in the spirit in which it is intended, and change behavior. I can think of instances where I’ve definitely told friends offhand to knock shit off in a way where I’d stop and have to have a staff conversation to see if others feel it’s appropriate to warn a stranger.
But.
In my head, I don’t necessarily think of it as warning my friend.
Damn, you right.
she/they
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@Tez Guess who just got through writing a paper on practitioner ethics, boundary setting, and bias acknowledgement. >_>
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@Tez said in Tough Calls:
I used to be a very evidence-based staffer.
I think evidence is still worthwhile, as sometimes, people can pass the vibe check, but still end up doing some horrible stuff, and evidence will get past the “oh, they’re good people, they pass my vibe check”, and can also indicate that maybe a review of the vibe one is looking for might be needed.
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@MisterBoring Quite agree. Trust, but verify the good vibes, while maintaining a readiness to just react to the bad vibes.
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@Tez can confirm you have had to tell my dumb ass to knock shit off and I never thought of it as a warning. Just oh god I’ve embarrassed my friend by behaving badly on her game in a perceivable way.
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@Yam bans are cancel culture and i like to think i have healed and evolved beyond such p e t t i n e s s
PS the calls I remember struggling with the most were
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a complaint about an interpersonal player relationship where one party was going against the rules/spirit of the rules of the game, but it all occurred in private off game conversations and there was a lot of ‘evidence’ to look at
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it was custodius, and he was honestly not doing anything i would ban another player for, but he wasn’t doing GREAT and we were just using a lot of staff time and energy like, watching him, corralling, investigating, etc.
But also, man, lots of them are hard. A lot of times you are looking at situations where neither side is being very cash money, and you’re trying to sort out which party is in the wrong this time and if there was some provoking incident that slipped by you and just aaaaaah. This is how I got burned out beyond belief. Telling a racist or a creep or a weird liar to buzz off is easy. I find that’s maybe 30% of player management
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Sadly, I think bans are sometimes necessary. A few years ag,o I had to ban someone I’ve gamed with and known for around 20 years. We’d run games together, we’d RPed together, we’d known each other for a long time, and I considered them a friend. They crossed more than a few lines, however, and refused to back down or take a break. So, in the end, I had to do what was best, not just for the game but also for my sanity.
