I’ve seen plenty examples of both extreme ends of the scale – where staff doesn’t play and stays uninvolved but winds up treating PCs as dolls they mess around with like…I dunno, Sid from Toy Story, and on the other end staff who center the entire plot around their personal characters and expect everyone to constantly gas them up and give them the spotlight.

I think choosing to play or not choosing to play are just different ways to engage with a game you make, each with their own unique challenges and pitfalls, and aren’t inherently problematic or better on their own.

@Gashlycrumb said:

I don’t believe it’s ‘most ideal’ for GMs to talk to players, I believe that’s a core element of the job.

other people have said this more politely but this is not a fucking job. it’s something someone is choosing to do, completely on their own time, for free, take it or leave it. they don’t OWE you anything more than they are offering, period.

I understand that’s a point of disagreement you are going to begrudge but honestly I really don’t care, players who come into someone’s game with that level of entitlement need to log off and go get some perspective or they will always find themselves on the outside looking in.

@Gashlycrumb said:

The thing is that deciding not to engage with someone when you are their only GM in a GM-required game is bad practice even if they’re a problem player or even a bad person. Pre-emptively refusing to engage and thinking you dodged a bullet 'cause they snarl doesn’t seem right.

it kinda seems like you’re willing to beat this horse to death, but no one is arguing with you.

yes, it’s preferable that staff confront you directly if they don’t want you around.

are they going to? most, probably not. you’re going to have to learn to accept that.

@Gashlycrumb said:

Some of those early WoD MUSHes were really heavy into this sort of model-world-building.

it’s always kinda reminded me of…remember how big Second Life was? and how some people were actually interviewed by mainstream media at the time about how they really did “live” through their avatar and game client and it was all really woo-y and glaze-eyed and weird?

@Roz said:

buddy i don’t know how to tell you that the CHARACTERS are not the same thing as the PLAYERS. the CHARACTERS are not secretly into it. the CHARACTERS are experiencing a horrific nonconsensual trauma.

it isn’t a misunderstanding. it’s such a hardcore RPI community thing, blurring the identity line and doing it deliberately, in the name of “realism and immersion” or what have you, and 1000% of the time it is crazy toxic and weird. we’ve had other visitors with this mindset on display and it really is a fundamental difference in how games have been approached for a long time.

it’s not surprising I guess, but I definitely have a line where I nope out of a place and I find it genuinely hard not to side-eye people who don’t seem to at all. there’s also a big difference imo between games where you’ve heard there’s maybe some weird things going on behind closed doors that aren’t sanctioned by the game but not openly stopped, and games where that stuff is explicitly part of the theme and run by staff, and that’s where the side-eye grows a bit more intense.

@Shygaming said:

I’m not going to play defense squad for anyone here. But I do think Tyr left the hobby in a better state than he found it.

I was just going to drop a “critical squint” gif and leave it at that but I genuinely think it’s important (to me) to express that a very unsettled/unsettling person can put a lot of work into something, years of effort even, and the result of that work does not always deserve credit. you’ve got plenty of other good codebases out there as a strong starting point; someone who enabled literal Nazis and CSAM does not belong on any kind of pedestal or, I’d even argue, deserve to have their work redistributed with the best of intentions.

to state it more clearly, ew, fuck that guy and fuck what he made, he did not leave the hobby in a “better state.”

personally I feel like that content can only be addressed productively and safely in an offline tabletop environment among friends who implicitly trust each other to handle it maturely and safely.

I think the evidence of what happens by allowing strangers to engage with it is plentiful and extremely discouraging.

@Shygaming

I refer you to my earlier statement, which was not intended to be a derailment so much as mildly helpful. this is not likely to be your crowd.

this is probably not the best place to advertise or engage given our generally intense distaste for both Haven and LLMs amd the fact you’re already bobbing and weaving around some direct questions, just sayin’.

@Tez said:

I’m not convinced a human was involved in this. Are we sure this wasn’t just ChatGPT breaking containment again?

as sure as I am that those are just elaborately stupid PR stunts, I still think we need to nuke the servers from orbit. only option really

@dvoraen he’s had one bath in his entire life and he let me know very clearly that was NOT an experience he enjoyed, lmao

I was actually very proud of him, he didn’t scratch me or anything but he was louder than I have ever heard him be, his meows are usually very subdued

adding to the “my cats literally pick the worst places to nap” lore

legit don’t know why I keep clicking on this thread this week

@kalakh ahhhh okay, that’s fun.

I enjoyed how hassle-free it was to create a temporary room in Arx 1 and describe it as being pretty much anywhere, but there is actually something special about having a dedicated grid space. I really do miss describing and furnishing my characters’ rooms. 🥹

I thought these were “starting areas” your characters could be from to give them traits and backgrounds in CG, rather than actual separate grid spaces, and the setting was still the city of Arx?

@Pavel said:

a character who, due to experiences in the game, has earned the ability to be a little blase or otherwise confident around weird shit.

this is, to be fair, not really the peeve. I don’t mind a confident, competent character who can reassure others because they’re an experienced demon hunter or whatever, but there is a line (not always super clear but definitely there) between that and just no-selling everything. like has been mentioned, it’s very much about their reaction to other characters’ reactions too.

blasé and dismissive has just never been fun to play off of in my experience. probably doesn’t help that the kind of player who picks that combo is also usually kind of a dick OOC on top of it.

@hellfrog said:

So who is the Blood Patriarch, and can he be my boyfriend

personally excited about dhampires. gonna use Wesley Snipes as my PB and grumble about motherfuckers always trying to ice skate uphill

@howyadoin said:

Like when characters act extremely blasé about the setting no matter how horrific/creepy/suspenseful…nothing affects them ever. They’ve “seen it all”!

literally the only good version of this character is one whose player is aware of just how dumb and boring it is to play it straight and so constantly subverts it. but it seems like maybe only three people tops ever got the memo.

the most frustrating thing about it to me is that it’s essentially just an extremely selfish way to play. it’s all about fulfilling some sad power fantasy, rather than having fun with other people.

@sao said:

I actually would prefer folks who played the first one to not have any special cookies at all.

yeah, this is def what I meant specifically by “weird dynamic.” doesn’t even matter if it’s true or not, there would probably be a perception that old players are being favored in ways newer players couldn’t have access to, which breeds resentment and bad feels all around. like, I get that you’re not going to avoid that being a thing anyway to whatever degree no matter what you do, but imho it’s better to head the visible stuff off at the pass.