Neitherlands
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@Warma-Sheen Yo, I’m comfortable with us having different takes on this.
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Even when I staffed and ran for WoD I would still check to make sure I was not triggering folks. Both LARP MUSH and PNP. I have been running WoD since 1997 or so.
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I don’t know either of these people but I read through the mass of logs that have been posted over this thread – from both parties, now – and I sure know who comes off worse.
By, uh. A lot.
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@Warma-Sheen what is your point. Are you insinuating that only 100 percent awful people can do bad things?
Or only 100 percent blameless people can be justified in feeling skeeved out. And if they’re not pure as the new falling snow they should shut up because “both people aren’t perfect.”
That’s so gross.
I’m not sure why the hell inuki thinks that log makes her look better. It doesn’t. It doesn’t even make jenn look particularly bad just they were annoyed with each other and inunki did a piss poor communication job from the start. Which she acknowledges without taking responsibility by saying she just is spontaneous.
Ugh. I love the back in my day nobody asked permission on WoD so thats how I totally roll on this 2023 non wod game and expect you to be grateful.
Why am I even reading this. Its all the depressing as fuck things about mu.
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Cool. Since you’re here, @inuki, and being so transparent - can we talk about why you lied about why you got banned?
https://brandmuday.mythicus.net/post/16221
Since you’re so very honest and never lie or tell people it was because you flirted with the wrong person and not because you were being gross and racist.
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@mietze said in Neitherlands:
Ugh. I love the back in my day nobody asked permission on WoD so thats how I totally roll on this 2023 non wod game and expect you to ge grateful.
The strange thing about this to me is that, yeah, I understand some games have had an “ST won’t ask permission to do things TO your character” but the example in the conversation was such a weird “ST decides what your character is doing” and that is – very different? Was THAT normal in old WoD games? Because that’s wild.
Also re: the sexual assault thing going around, I read the old logs that had Inuki first 1) telling Jenn that she wasn’t RPing these dreams at all horribly enough, that they needed to be MAXIMUM HORRIBLE, and then 2) getting MAD that Jenn misunderstood what was meant.
(IIRC I actually proceeded to go to Neitherlands site to see if they had any posted policy about sexual assault in RP and not only did they not have any policy about it, I couldn’t find policy files at all? I can find restricted concepts in the CG guide, but not – actual written files about how to exist on a game. Which is also wild.)
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@Roz honestly yeah it wasn’t unheard of. Including in a retaliatory way, especially aimed at degrading female pcs. Also included doing the same sort of burn it to the ground unnecessary shit if you left that inuki did but again even more on the degradation.
The last time it happened to me was years and years ago and to this day I have a lot of anxiety asking staff for anything more than once even if its a small thing. Its stupid especially if I know them or if I’m on staff even so I can see everything but I find it very hard to even ask for something once (I’m getting a lot better at it but jobs and requests are high anxiety) and its very hard to even make myself ping for a followup/clarification if the person isn’t clear. Also why i prefer to keep erotic/sensual play private.
So I get the fear here, inuki frankly rings a lot of those alarm bells fair or not. And I am sure I’m not the only person who started wod when I did especially if they are female presenting that may have similar anxieties. To have a player actually share that they are uncomfortable and be specific when asked was a great opportunity that inuki blew.
And all this shit of “well both people were wrong won’t someone think of the person that was wronger too because the less wrong person isn’t perfect you know” is just having me have massive feels right now so I’m gonna step away I think because I shouldn’t have this strong a reaction.
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@helvetica said in Neitherlands:
@Roz There was an effort during/after this fiasco to iron out some policy.
why is it that literally everything i see written from this person in their official staff voice (including all the stuff i saw in the actual wiki files) sounds like 5000% annoyed and patronizing at their game’s players???
@mietze said in Neitherlands:
@Roz honestly yeah it wasn’t unheard of. Including in a retaliatory way, especially aimed at degrading female pcs. Also included doing the same sort of burn it to the ground unnecessary shit if you left that inuki did but again even more on the degradation.
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@Roz said in Neitherlands:
@helvetica said in Neitherlands:
@Roz There was an effort during/after this fiasco to iron out some policy.
why is it that literally everything i see written from this person in their official staff voice (including all the stuff i saw in the actual wiki files) sounds like 5000% annoyed and patronizing at their game’s players???
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Also, please dont burn Sparrow’s body.”Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Just bury it.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “It’s rude to do a cremation without knowing the dead’s religious practices. You might get haunted.”
Sophia (@Jenn) says, “I mean… Do we want a zombie sparrow in the woods later?”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Risk of zombie sparrow or higher risk and certainty of ghost sparrow. What do you prefer?”
Luka (@Scar) says, “It’s hard to imagine the clinic doesn’t have like… a morgue… situation, with how deadly magic is.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “But once it’s decided what y’all did with the body, just lemme know, cause ICA=ICC.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Dead student bodies that aren’t sanctioned means paperwork for Fogg.”
Luka (@Scar) says, “Not if he’s on vacation again taps head”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Yeah, but that means Pierce Sr. is in charge right now.”
Luka (@Scar) says, “okay”
Luka (@Scar) says, “the fact remains”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “I mean, if y’all wanna do it, I’ll just go with the flow of what happens.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “I purposely put Fogg on vacation for 2 reasons.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “1) He’s on a mission to try to recruit other hedge clans for stuff.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “2) I don’t want people to be like ICly: Let’s go to Fogg for /everything/.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “And bonus reason 3) Dumbledore was never at Hogwarts during important plot stuff.”
Luka (@Scar) says, “disposing of a dead body seems pretty up there, though”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “You’d think people never watched teen movies like I know what you did last summer or SCream. People in their 20s don’t go to the authorities! They try to hide everything and bury the evidence!”
Luka (@Scar) says, “okay”
Sophia (@Jenn) says, “@Luka - Getting official faculty help was the IC preference of a few folks there. But. Storyteller fiat was that it’s not allowable. Not sure what Zayden/Austin/Seline will decide to do with Sparrow’s remains.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Another way to say it: You go to authority figures, the plot ends there and the adults take care of it.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “If you wanna be the main character, then act like a main character, ya know?”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Selene got the fuck out of town. She doesn’t trust Brakebills at all.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) would also like to reiterate, “None of y’all are helpless damsels in distress. To be a magician requires a level of mental fortitude that would have been weeded out during the entrance exam and interview. Fogg won’t hesitate to brainwipe students who don’t meet those standards just for the safety of the magical community at large. Pierce? He’d do other things.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “If you start freaking out or need authority figures to solve problems constantly, then maybe you need a talk with Fogg. >.> <.<”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Translation: Please have your characters do things instead of going to NPCs to do things.”
Tia is sort of a side character who will grow into a main character in a later season. For now, not going to authority figures, but tagging along for sure.
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Finally, the /only/ way to get rare/forbidden/dark magics and more powerful spells than what’s in the standard curricula or to get the traits of shamanism/exorcism and other future traits with neat advantages is to take risks. With active participation in stories, I go beyond meager XP dots, and give dots in skills.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Tagging along for shenanigans is fine. I just want active participation instead of: let’s hand it off to NPCs.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “The greater the risk, the greater the reward.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “Thus endth sandbox.”
Calliope (@chookitypok) says, “That being said, if you just wanna do PRPs and never participate in staff plot, that’s kosher. Just don’t expect the greater rewards, ya know? You’ll still get XP and stuff if you post the log.”
Sophia (@Jenn) says, “I think that, when it comes to a dead student that stops showing up in classes… Making sure the faculty knows to inform the parents is reasonable. But. Trying to stay in the lanes where, how, and as they’re painted.”
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@Roz said in Neitherlands:
(IIRC I actually proceeded to go to Neitherlands site to see if they had any posted policy about sexual assault in RP and not only did they not have any policy about it, I couldn’t find policy files at all? I can find restricted concepts in the CG guide, but not – actual written files about how to exist on a game. Which is also wild.)
All of their policies seem to as bbposts with the frequent answer to thorny staff questions being ‘put it in your RP Prefs.’ I mean this game has other problems beyond non-existent policy documentation but it’s been DRIVING ME INSANE FOR SO LONG. And now I’ve said it lol.
Edited to add: NGL this really was a turn-off to me for the game initially and I spent a decently-long time reading through its wiki when it opened. I like The Magicians show a lot. No regrets I guess but it was baffling.
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@Third-Eye A lot of it was by the seat of your pants, but the freedom that this chaos added kinda felt like a secret ingredient. At least for a little while.
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@Pavel said in Neitherlands:
I appreciate this new (or pseudo-new) crop of staff going out of their way to make me look better by comparison.
Yeah, I’ll say!
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Having dipped into the tail end of it feels a bit like a fever dream in retrospect…kinda sobering that all my personal experiences of a lot of places in the hobby are either a staff and playerbase that are chill and fun, or Satan and his lamest pit fiends just absolutely eating each other alive.
Where are all the mildly insane people??
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@Wizz said in Neitherlands:
Where are all the mildly insane people??
i’m right here, bb. always been.
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I also come from a WoD background and know that non-consent doesn’t invalidate fade to black, and especially doesn’t allow forcing someone to play through potentially traumatic stuff. So, with regards to “I come from WoD where you’re lucky to have staff even acknowledge you before doing what they want,” I feel like this was a pretty old perspective even 15 years ago. IMO, one thing most successful/decent staff took from places where staff acted with impunity about your character’s consent was to at least check in on certain things. Even just a heads up of, “hey this is likely a combat scene, are you cool with that?” was pretty standard on several games which were non-consent MU*s. Player side, most games had a +warn system. All you’re doing is taking the worst elements of past WoD staffing habits and bringing them into a new generation and setting.
Edit: Also this wasn’t intended to be a reply to helvetica, but the log output from inuki lol.
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@somasatori said in Neitherlands:
I also come from a WoD background and know that non-consent doesn’t invalidate fade to black, and especially doesn’t allow forcing someone to play through potentially traumatic stuff. So, with regards to “I come from WoD where you’re lucky to have staff even acknowledge you before doing what they want,” I feel like this was a pretty old perspective even 15 years ago. IMO, one thing most successful/decent staff took from places where staff acted with impunity about your character’s consent was to at least check in on certain things. Even just a heads up of, “hey this is likely a combat scene, are you cool with that?” was pretty standard on several games which were non-consent MU*s. Player side, most games had a +warn system. All you’re doing is taking the worst elements of past WoD staffing habits and bringing them into a new generation and setting.
Not only that, but someone saying "you’re lucky [this thing] is not as bad as [this thing before]’ is some of the worst type of justification tactics for abuse.
“You’re lucky I only open-hand slap you, my dad beat my mother with a bat.”
I mean, yes, extreme comparison, but that’s essentially what it is: ‘I’m not as bad as what you would have had to deal with, so don’t complain’.
Fuck that, lol.
