Numetal/Retromux
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@hellfrog Mage is also a problem. I don’t hear much about Changeling, but I don’t play much changeling so it’s not really in my echo chamber.
To your point, though, I think large-scale antagonisms could well be a large part of the issue. At least in nWoD and CofD (which is a stupid name) the different supernatural groups don’t really care about each other all that much—because there’s no metaplot really.
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@Pavel said in Numetal/Retromux:
@hellfrog Mage is also a problem. I don’t hear much about Changeling, but I don’t play much changeling so it’s not really in my echo chamber.
Changeling can be several different kinds of problem. Think Disney adults.
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@Prototart said in Numetal/Retromux:
@Pavel said in Numetal/Retromux:
@hellfrog Mage is also a problem. I don’t hear much about Changeling, but I don’t play much changeling so it’s not really in my echo chamber.
Changeling can be several different kinds of problem. Think Disney adults.
do you feel like they are equal problems
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The issue is one of power parity and stat comparison in most cases. Werewolf would not have a pvp problem most of the time without Vampire or Mage. Vampire would not have a PVP problem if people stopped playing Vampire. Mage would not have a PVP problem without Vampires and Werewolves. We need to stop making big multi-sphere games.
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@somasatori I dunno, I think it’s a stupid people problem a lot more than it is a power parity problem. Drunk drivers don’t care about the speed limit.
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‘The Drunken Driver Has The Right of Way’ by Ethan Coen
The loudest have the final say,
The wanton win, the rash hold sway,
The realist’s rules of order say
The drunken driver has the right of way.The Kubla Khan can butt in line;
The biggest brute can take what’s mine;
When heavyweights break wind, that’s fine;
No matter what a judge might say,
The drunken driver has the right of way.The guiltiest feel free of guilt;
Who care not, bloom; who worry, wilt;
Plans better laid are rarely built
For forethought seldom wins the day;
The drunken driver has the right of way.The most attentive and unfailing
Carefulness is unavailing
Wheresoever fools are flailing;
Wisdom there is held at bay;,
The drunken driver has the right of way.De jure is de facto’s slave;
The most foolhardy beat the brave;
Brass routs restraint; low lies high’s grave;
When conscience leads you, it’s astray;
The drunken driver has the right of way.It’s only the naivest who’ll
Deny this, that the reckless rule;
When facing an oncoming fool
The practiced and sagacious say
Watch out — one side — look sharp — gang way.However much you plan and pray,
Alas, alack, tant pis, oy vey,
Now — heretofore — til Judgment Day,
The drunken driver has the right of way -
@somasatori said in Numetal/Retromux:
Someone once told me (paraphrased) that the primary difference between maintaining OOC respect for your fellow players after a PVP/tense situation at a LARP and maintaining OOC respect and kindness towards your fellow MUSHers in the same situation is that MUSHers are not obligated to sit in a booth with each other at IHOP at 2am after we’ve finished our scenes.
Anonymity can be a real motivator in being a serious asshole towards others – which is interesting, because I’m fairly certain we’ve all known each other (or of each other) for the better part of a decade (which is perhaps also what leads to PVP situations).
That said, PVP is a difficult one. On one hand, if you explicitly prohibit PVP in a WoD environment, it takes some of the bite out of inter-sphere relations. On the other hand, allowing for a no-holds-barred environment will make the game – from examples I’ve seen – into a tedious free-for-all. I’m not sure if it’s just my perception based on the people I talk to, but I feel like interest in PVP has dropped off in the last little while.
I used to be in a gaming club in college where a whole lot of people were Mind’s Eye Theatre players. For my money, I’d say there’s not a whole lot of difference in toxicity: lots of vicious personal enmity, gossip, blurring of OOC/IC boundaries, sexual harassment, sexual assault, and cheating. Having to look people in the face afterwards didn’t really seem to help any of it.
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@Pavel / @Gashlycrumb
‘The Michael Jordan of Drunk Driving’ by AJJThe Michael Jordan of drunk driving played his final game tonight.
Emburdened[sic] by his loneliness,
he wanted to feel alive;
His laziness built the pyramids
and his solitude was a knife.
The Michael Jordan of drunk driving played his final game tonight. -
@Pyrephox said in Numetal/Retromux:
@somasatori said in Numetal/Retromux:
Someone once told me (paraphrased) that the primary difference between maintaining OOC respect for your fellow players after a PVP/tense situation at a LARP and maintaining OOC respect and kindness towards your fellow MUSHers in the same situation is that MUSHers are not obligated to sit in a booth with each other at IHOP at 2am after we’ve finished our scenes.
Anonymity can be a real motivator in being a serious asshole towards others – which is interesting, because I’m fairly certain we’ve all known each other (or of each other) for the better part of a decade (which is perhaps also what leads to PVP situations).
That said, PVP is a difficult one. On one hand, if you explicitly prohibit PVP in a WoD environment, it takes some of the bite out of inter-sphere relations. On the other hand, allowing for a no-holds-barred environment will make the game – from examples I’ve seen – into a tedious free-for-all. I’m not sure if it’s just my perception based on the people I talk to, but I feel like interest in PVP has dropped off in the last little while.
I used to be in a gaming club in college where a whole lot of people were Mind’s Eye Theatre players. For my money, I’d say there’s not a whole lot of difference in toxicity: lots of vicious personal enmity, gossip, blurring of OOC/IC boundaries, sexual harassment, sexual assault, and cheating. Having to look people in the face afterwards didn’t really seem to help any of it.
Fun Fact: The only time I’ve ever been reduced to literally hiding behind other people in order to get a man twice my age to stop leering at me in a public space was when I was in college, attending a campus Changeling LARP as an OOC observer to see if I wanted to join. He was, supposedly, “just doing what his character would do!” since he was playing a satyr. Again, I was an OOC observer and visibly tagged as such. As far as his ‘character’ was concerned, I didn’t exist. I was 19. He had to be in his 40s. No one seemed to think this was a problem except for me, my then-boyfriend, and the friend I’d gone there with.
So. Y’know. Do with that information what you will.
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@somasatori said in Numetal/Retromux:
Someone once told me (paraphrased) that the primary difference between maintaining OOC respect for your fellow players after a PVP/tense situation at a LARP and maintaining OOC respect and kindness towards your fellow MUSHers in the same situation is that MUSHers are not obligated to sit in a booth with each other at IHOP at 2am after we’ve finished our scenes.
I found that telling people, “We are pretending this is my living room. We may not all be friends, but we’re all gonna act friendly because it’s my living room,”
worked all right.
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I’m going to have to lay down more one-line pithy metaphors, just so you all can give me poetry in response.
