The 3-Month Players
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I totally agree with that idea about game runners needing a clear plan before the game opens. The alternative seems to be a game that has shiny new stuff to play with, but since there’s no plan, it quickly devolves into social RP and a few PRPs that don’t really lead anywhere and then everybody starts to leave when they realize there’s nothing more than that.
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@L-B-Heuschkel said in The 3-Month Players:
Smaller but invested. It sounds harsh, but it’s not those March violets you need to invest in as a game runner. They come with great enthusiasm – and they bail with just as much enthusiasm when the next game opens. It’s the other players you need to invest in – the ones who will stick around for a longer time. Those who came looking for a community to move into and stay in.
I think this is where we see things differently. Of course I can’t speak for everyone, but in my experience–the majority of players want to stick around. MUSHers come to tell stories and build IC relationships. That’s the long game. It’s not like a MMO or single-player game where everyone’s always drawn to “the new shiny”. The biggest reason they move on to a new game is that the one they’re on isn’t meeting that need.
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@Faraday said in The 3-Month Players:
@L-B-Heuschkel said in The 3-Month Players:
Smaller but invested. It sounds harsh, but it’s not those March violets you need to invest in as a game runner. They come with great enthusiasm – and they bail with just as much enthusiasm when the next game opens. It’s the other players you need to invest in – the ones who will stick around for a longer time. Those who came looking for a community to move into and stay in.
I think this is where we see things differently. Of course I can’t speak for everyone, but in my experience–the majority of players want to stick around. MUSHers come to tell stories and build IC relationships. That’s the long game. It’s not like a MMO or single-player game where everyone’s always drawn to “the new shiny”. The biggest reason they move on to a new game is that the one they’re on isn’t meeting that need.
But that’s my point, in a way. If your game doesn’t offer enough for them to become long-term invested, they will bail for the next shiny.
The real issue, as I see it, is how to make your game interesting enough. As BN said above – getting a cool idea for a setting is easy but what will people actually RP?
I don’t have a golden answer, unfortunately. Sometimes, you strike gold. Sometimes, you don’t.
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MUs based on already established properties – especially those which are still on-going – likely have a big advantage on the “what do we do” question.
The simple fact that the main show/game/book/whatever can provide inspiration if not full plots to be lifted eases the burden on storytellers.
I remember there was a Babylon 5 MU* back in the day that lasted up through the end of the series with very stable player-counts because the show kept giving new context, plot feeds, and storylines that the game would incorporate and use as inspiration for additional stuff.
One personal problem I have is that, after a MU is established, I get gunshy about running PRPs. There’s no reason for this feeling, honestly, but I always feel like I’m intruding on others’ stories even if that is clearly and explicitly not the case. This is definitely a me problem and not a problem with games overall, but I wonder if others have this particular brain worm as well and that might account for things petering off after three months.
Three months also tends to correspond to college break and vacays. Not sure how much that matters considering MU players are all old now.
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Interesting thoughts here, that people want to stay and are looking for the right content to stay for. I think that’s true for some players, and maybe not as true for others.
Most people like the idea of the long haul in theory, but some players definitely find it much easier to start a new idea than to continue playing an old one for a long time. I don’t know that any amount of Great Game Content is ever going to outweigh the allure of “what’s new and all the potential that could be had there” for some people.
I’ve really made myself crazy over the years trying to put out the best possible content and hooks and RP so that people won’t go. I took their departure to other games as a sign that whatever I’m doing is not good enough anymore and is not fun or interesting, which felt terrible. But I think these days I just have to accept that some people like new things no matter how “good” the old one was.
That’s kind of why I’ve been thinking about this Playerbase Bubble phenomenon to begin with. Doubtless a lot of factors go into it, anyway.
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@Ashkuri
I think there’s sort of two different things here, at least from the previous topic/your title and the question you’re asking, one being 3-Month Players (3M) and one being The Bubble a new game experiences that they contribute to.I don’t think there is a right answer to The Bubble. I think it is in large part inevitable if awareness is high and especially if the game is good, and every way of trying to manage it administratively has some flavor of contraindication. You can waitlist, but then you burn enthusiasm when people can’t get in or don’t get in with their friends. You can roster-only, but then you burn enthusiasm when people feel blocked from the concept they wanted to invent (even if it is 90% the same as the roster). You can just plow through it, but then you burn enthusiasm when there’s not enough content coming from staff for everyone to engage in. All of these burn staff enthusiasm too, from knowing about the burnt player enthusiasm.
I saw some assertions made that there simply needs to be enough for players to RP about on their own, and I don’t agree that this solves everything. Nobody is coming to your game solely to come up with their own content in your incredibly original and unique setting; there has to be enough content coming from staff or you will burn enthusiasm, period.
I also don’t agree that all players want to stick on a game but the game fails them, and I don’t agree that you can make the game so shiny that these people will stick when they would have otherwise gone off to the new shiny thing. Some people are 3Ms and that’s just the way they are. You can make the greatest, most inclusive, most content-having, most relationship-building game anyone has ever seen, and they will still wander off to check the next up and coming game. The grass is always greener. People (and that is what players are) love novelty. People love the idea that something different will fill the ‘want’ inside them, and that something different is always the next thing that I don’t have yet. Nothing is more important than tracking that incoming package, and nothing matters less than the thing that came in last month’s package.
Some of this is down to bad player expectations, that a volunteer staff providing a free service will supply a bespoke, on-demand, endlessly entertaining funbox filled with interesting (and new!) entities for them to meet and build fulfilling relationships with. It’s always going to be a ‘pick your poison’ scenario for how you handle those expectations and the inevitable failure to meet them, especially during a bubble.
How do you tell a 3M from a forever player? Wait three months. You don’t have the benefit of knowing which flowers will set fruit and which won’t. You have to treat them all well, or none of them will. I’m always devastated when a tomato gets end rot or splits before what I felt was its time, but there’s only so much I can do, so I try to enjoy the harvest I get and not shed (too many) tears over the harvest I don’t. Do your best, get some help if you need it, and let it ride. There’s always next summer.
And hey! Where is it written that 3Ms are bad, actually? If you can whirlwind through in 3 months and make me remember you enough to miss you when you’re gone, my hat is off to you. I love you. I hate you. I think of you often. I hope you’re doing well.
We should talk about 8Ms too, but this post is long enough already.
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@Trashcan said in The 3-Month Players:
I also don’t agree that all players want to stick on a game but the game fails them, and I don’t agree that you can make the game so shiny that these people will stick when they would have otherwise gone off to the new shiny thing. Some people are 3Ms and that’s just the way they are. You can make the greatest, most inclusive, most content-having, most relationship-building game anyone has ever seen, and they will still wander off to check the next up and coming game.
Just because the game isn’t meeting their needs, that doesn’t mean that the game failed them. There’s no conceivable way that a game can appeal to every single MUSHer out there, because many of us want different things out of a game.
There are many reasons folks move on from a game. I’ve just seen zero evidence that there’s some kind of ticking 3-month clock (where they’ll move on just because of “novelty” if the game is otherwise a good fit for them) built into the majority of MUSHers. YMMV.
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@Faraday Something else to consider with the Bubble talk is to consider what else is going on in the real world with the theme of the game. Successfully super hero movies can cause a bubble for a successful superhero game. A bad Star wars movie can hurt a star wars game. Some food for thought.
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OK, but specifically on the New Game Bubble thing.
There is a pattern.
New game opens. The theme at this point almost doesn’t matter. The appeal of it at this point almost doesn’t matter.
It is mobbed by the same 40+ people, most of whom evaporate in 3 months.
The cycle repeats at the next new game, the XYZ of which almost doesn’t matter.
There are a LOT of reasons players don’t stick with games. I think 3 months is a pretty reasonable, and probably more-than-reasonable, time to see if something is for you or not. But the Bubble is its own thing and it’s exhausting and it keeps happening and I want it not to happen again on the next project I undertake.
ETA: I guess I’m interested in the ‘I only like new things’ mentality because it’s so foreign to me and so counter-productive to the kinds of environments I enjoy over the long term.
I want something else to get me through this
Semi-charmed kinda life, baby, baby
I want something else, I'm not listening when you say good-byeShe/Her or They/Them
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I think that there are a lot of MU* players out there that have very specific unmet interests. Most MU* players have been playing the game for a while now and know exactly what they want. A new game comes along that sounds close grabs their interest, they give it a shot, it doesn’t check all their boxes, and they move on.
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@Third-Eye said in The 3-Month Players:
New game opens. The theme at this point almost doesn’t matter. The appeal of it at this point almost doesn’t matter.
It is mobbed by the same 40+ people, most of whom evaporate in 3 months.
The cycle repeats at the next new game, the XYZ of which almost doesn’t matter.
IMO the bubble seems to largely happen on specific genres of games and my theory is that it happens because 1) it’s the genre people want to play, and 2) there aren’t enough games in that genre to tickle everyone’s fancy. So a game in that genre comes up, 40+ people rush to play (even tho the theme/setting only appeals to 10-15 of them), then slowly but surely those people who aren’t really “all in” on the game trickle off & the game settles into a ‘reasonable’ population. But then the new hotness in the same genre pops up, and the rush happens again, and hey your friends are playing over there and not over here, so you go over there too and by 5 month’s time the first game is dead and the second game is about to lose half of their population because the theme/setting didn’t appeal to them but they want to play in that genre, rinse & repeat etc. etc.
Then you have the OTHER side of it where gamerunners determine a game’s success off “The Bubble” and the natural trickling off of people to settle into a more “reasonable” population makes it seem Unsuccessful, so they give up. Or they burn out. Or they didn’t hook the people they wanted to hook and they don’t really want to Rp with the people who are left so they give up.
I suspect if you had 2-3 high fantasy/pretty princess games and 2-3 modern supernatural games opening up at the same-ish time, you wouldn’t experience that bubble. But IDK, I could be wrong.
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It’s standard New Hotness. We see it with TV, we see it with video games, we see it with basically all forms of media in some fashion. It’s a tale as old as time. You’re not going to appeal to 100% of people, but 95% of people will want to try the new hotness. After a bit, the ones who don’t like it will leave. It’s not really a mystery.
