pvp vs pvp
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
@NotSanni
I’m not throwing a tantrum. I’m just telling you the truth as I see it. I watched these games that I loved go down the toilet because staff chose to coddle a few troublemakers and change the rules so that they would whine less.The damage may be irreversible but if it’s not, it’s certainly going to take a drastic and revolutionary new approach. That’s all I’m saying. What people are doing now isn’t working. Try something else. Hell, try anything else. Just stop making the same mistakes over and over and over. That’s all I ask. Stop listening to people who are clearly leading you down the wrong path. Do something new. Do something different.
Look at what worked in the past and what didn’t. Be objective. Don’t listen to people who want to make everything about them. Ask yourself, what can we do differently to attract and retain new players?
Surprise me! Please!
I want the hobby I used to love to be worth playing again.You continue to mount your weird defense in favor of using slurs and being politically incorrect.
Reevaluate your life.
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I think we can probably stop feeding this person the attention they’re craving.
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@tsar said in pvp vs pvp:
I think we can probably stop feeding this person the attention they’re craving.
you mean we should stop arguing with the guy who’s user name is a euphemism for dog penis? because that didn’t automatically target him as problematic to begin with…???
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Things I didn’t know. Rockets are red because they go vroom fast.
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@junipersky it’s all i can see every time this guy posts, i thought i was crazy that no one else was bringing it up
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@bear_necessities Well, it certainly puts a couple things in context.
But yeah, at this point I don’t buy their story about how they found this board in the first place. I’m getting this sense of deja-vu that I can’t really pinpoint.
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@dvoraen said in pvp vs pvp:
I’m getting this sense of deja-vu that I can’t really pinpoint.
It feels very much like that “OT The Real” guy finally decided to tone it down to a level that won’t get him snap banned.
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I’m saying that they are dying because they are being run the way a small hand full of whiny forever-victims who instigate the problems they then complain about want.
What are these ghost town games you speak of?
What were these massive PvP games you miss?
Name them. No more generalities.
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PvP as implicated in the “death of the medium”
There are good reasons why PvP used to be more common in an MU environment that have nothing to do with personal preferences, as @Hobbie has repeatedly tried to make the case for.
Factor #1: people do not read or write as much as they used to.
When the internet was new, there was not a whole lot else to do with it other than read or write. These days, you can do anything online. Social media alone accounts for over 2 hours a day on average, of which big chunks are watching video (i.e. not reading or writing). The average (American) person spends more time on YouTube (24 minutes/day) alone than they do reading (16 minutes/day). Reading (for pleasure) is down by 7 minutes per day from 2004, a 32% decrease. Writing is much harder to find stats on but I assume the number is smaller as there are many more readers than writers, and I would expect it follows similar trends.
Factor #2: At the core of PvP is not story-telling, but the thrill of competitive victory. There are much more evocative mediums available for experiencing this thrill.
VIDEO GAMES. On an MU, the competitive aspect is always attenuated through a sheet+gear and dice rolls. In a video game, the competitive aspect is much more nakedly down to player skill. You do not lose a shoot-out in CoD due to a dice roll; you lose because you were slower, less accurate. On top of that, you also get to experience rich audio/visual imagery that an MU cannot hope to provide. The timer to repeat this tension is short, the barrier to experience it with a group of pals is low, the improvement in your skills (not a character) is quantifiable, and the dopamine hits of advancement and reward are lab-engineered to maintain engagement. 25% of all PC gaming time last year was spent on 4 PvP games.
MUs are not waning in popularity because they don’t have PvP.
They are waning in popularity because the things that they are made up of are not what people are choosing to engage with in their limited free time. Emphasizing PvP as a core of a game’s experience will not lead to a meteoric rise in popularity because this aspect of gaming can be done better in other game mediums. MUs exist at a weird confluence of social interaction, creative story-telling, and TEXT, which may better explain why so many games have left PvP out; why invest significant time capital (and despite the laissez-faire presentation of PvP given above, the investment to manage PvP is significant) in something that another medium does so much better?
The timer may be running down on when video games get better at approximating social interaction and creative story-telling. In the meantime, text-based RP remains a compelling hobby because it is the only game in town that can offer those two elements from the comfort of your home, for free, with some of the coordination elements of TTRPGs removed; the increase in options to run Actual TTRPG sessions online is arguably much more of a problem for MUs than too few opportunities to punk newbs.
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@bear_necessities said in pvp vs pvp:
i thought i was crazy that no one else was bringing it up
I was going to, you know me I’m always down to bring up a penis so long as it’s someone else’s, but I didn’t know if it was a common euphemism over yonder.
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@bear_necessities said in pvp vs pvp:
you mean we should stop arguing with the guy who’s user name is a euphemism for dog penis? because that didn’t automatically target him as problematic to begin with…???
I also saw the username and thought of this was but I was like noooooo maybe it means something else maybe this is just me
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@tsar We need to form a pact to call out phrases if we even suspect that they might be funny euphemisms in the future.
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Is it really? I swear. I learn new things from you every day.
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
I just think that on a game where a core theme of the setting is conflict between factions, making that conflict between players meaningless or even impossible for no IC logical reason makes the game setting just as pointless and boring.
You can have conflict between characters without having PvP. Even if the rule is “you can’t directly harm another PC” there’s a whole lot you can still do to play out conflict. Your lack of imagination is your problem, not a problem of PvE games.
It’s like making a game set in the marvel cinematic universe but no one is allowed to play as the heroes or villains, they can only play normal people doing normal things.
Um… no it’s not. It’s like making a game set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe but no one is allowed to play as villains, just heroes – oh wait, that’s pretty much most comic book MU*s out there.
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
Putting everyone on the same team means staff takes on the burden of being everyone else in the world.
This is actually almost universally true, unlike most of what you’ve said. A PvE game does require more Staff effort to create all of the antagonists and their actions to frustrate the PCs – but it requires less Staff effort to deal with assholes who are just out to grief other players by killing their characters.
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
When the games started being about protecting the feelings of bad actors who instigated trouble then ran to staff for protection it all went to shit.
You have this backwards. Yes, there are some people who do bad things and then complain when they get consequences for those bad things, but those players exist on PvE games too, and they still try to weasel out of consequences. But by closely monitoring or eliminated PvP, you stop allowing the bad actors who instigated trouble by killing characters for OOC reasons – or just to grief the other players. The people who “make it their life goal to ruin things for everyone” aren’t the people asking that their characters not be killed off for no reason, it’s the people killing off other characters for no reason.
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
What is happening now isn’t working. What people did then was working. Back in the day there were hundreds of active players on at a time. Now you’re lucky to see five.
Huh… sounds like you’re not on the games that are successful right now. Sure, they may not have 100 players at a time, but they’re perfectly happy with 30. It’s almost like MU*ing is an outdated technological medium whose primary players grew up and are now adults with jobs and lives and families rather than being high school or collect students who time on their hands.
Your issues sound like a you problem.
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Aww, but this is hilarious shit.
@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
- Finally, and most importantly, don’t give a fuck about people’s feelings.
And to run a good and popular restaurant, use beef tallow and MSG, make the waitstaff wear funny hats, mop the floor at least twice a week, and
Finally, and most importantly, don’t give a fuck if people like the taste.
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@RedRocket said in pvp vs pvp:
If the reason for the attack is lame
There was so much drivel that I ghosted right past this but jesus christ it’s a hell of a thing to double down, triple down after someone has politely asked you “hey can you don’t?” and admin has already had to use the mod voice.
Honestly, guy, leap into the sun.
