AI In Poses
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@MisterBoring That I’d always rather engage with a real person. That passion and creativity are always more important than getting an A from imaginary English teachers. That people who can’t look past typos or short posts aren’t worth one’s time. That no amount of for-fun amateur rp between pals can justify poisoning entire cities.
That you are enough, and you are welcome.
Got what you wanted, lost what you had.
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@MisterBoring I think it’s an interesting exercise but I’d want to talk to someone who does use it as such to understand how they use it and what the difference is for them and for others.
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@Tez I mean, please don’t take this in any way other than a legitimate question, but why should someone who utilizes a tool to work around a disability need to explain how they use that tool?
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@bear_necessities You know what? You’re right. They shouldn’t have to. I’m just curious.
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@Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:
That’s I’d always rather engage with a real person. That passion and creativity are always more important than getting an A from imaginary English teachers. That people who can’t look past typos or short posts aren’t worth one’s time. That no amount of for-fun amateur rp between pals can justify poisoning entire cities.
I agree with this, but at the same time, not recognizing AI’s use as an assistive tech seems demeaning to people with disabilities.
I was referring to those people who are mentally fully functional, but have severe disabilities that tech assistive products only help part of the way. A person with cerebral palsy often times will not only be unable to type a full pose at a speed that allows them to maintain a respectable posing speed, but also will be unable to use voice recognition software because the same palsy makes their speech patterns indecipherable by the software.
I am fully against people who are just being lazy using AI to help with posts, but after doing a lot of reading and talking to a few people I know who need assistive tech, I now recognize the value of LLMs for those people. (Though even my friends who use AI as assistive tech will admit that some of the responses it gives are quite insane and they have to use their best judgement to decide when to use it and when it’s just crazy.)
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@bear_necessities said in AI In Poses:
@Tez I mean, please don’t take this in any way other than a legitimate question, but why should someone who utilizes a tool to work around a disability need to explain how they use that tool?
“I’d want” and “they need” aren’t the same thing, especially in this instance of talking about a thought experiment. I’d much rather a real person actually using the technology as an assistive one explain how and why than try to think up fictional scenarios that lead to apropos of nothing statements.
ETA:
So that I’m not misunderstood: A person absolutely doesn’t need to explain their disability to me or how they overcome/deal with it. When we are talking about using something as a disability treatment, assistant, or whatever I do want to hear from disabled people not half-baked conjecture from people who aren’t using the technology in such a way.
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@MisterBoring There are worlds of incredible tools which allow accessibility of voice and text communication which have stood the test of time. As a workforce manager one of my jobs was ensuring all employees were, through software and hardware tools, to have equal footing with other workers. And those workers often also worked from home, but it was effectively invisible to the bosses when said workers were given and trained with the right tools.
Important to note none of those tools require making a deal with the devil. I can’t feel the same about LLMs. Nobody owes an explanation for what they do until it crosses legal or etheical thresholds. City poisoning, thieving, lying machines with the capacity to induce suicides and murders in vulnerable parties are simply not on par with the many robust options which already exist.
Got what you wanted, lost what you had.
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@bear_necessities said in AI In Poses:
@KarmaBum This. At this point, if someone is secretly an AI? Fine. As long as they bring more spice to the table than “grim man in a trench coat who sighs meaningfully,”
But it can’t “bring more spice” than that, lol. That’s exactly what it’s trained on. It is not technically possible for ChatGPT to excel at creativity, the best it can do is a mediocre average of all the writing it’s been fed, because that is how it works.
But writing quality or lack thereof aside: There are already LLM/ChatGPT apps and services for role play out there. It will adore you. It will make you the star of the story. It will be on any time frame and theme that you want. It will make any changes you want.
If we as a hobby aren’t using those services, then it’s because we decided there is something valuable about human interaction and responses that ChatGPT can’t replicate.
Is it cool to enjoy human responses to your content while being unwilling to write human content for the other person?
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@Ashkuri yeah I mean, I am mostly just on the side of the fence that we can’t really tell who is writing with LLMs and who just sucks at writing but it seems like this is a REALLY BIG DEAL when it… might not be? I’m definitely not saying that people should just RP with ChatGPT or that there isn’t something valuable in the human experience because I’m still playing MU*s to interact with you lot so clearly I want to be where the real people are. But I don’t particularly have the brain power to decide, or care, if you’re using LLMs to help you play with me as long as you’re fun to play with. And that’s me! And that’s fine! Not everyone has to think like me. Heck, I don’t even think like me a lot of the time
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@Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:
Important to note none of those tools require making a deal with the devil.
I think that also depends on where you live and your economic situation. ChatGPT may be the cheapest and least personally stressful option to some people in the face of their particular disabilities.
Also, a lot of accessibility tools are now incorporating AI models into their installations because spinning off an AI model to learn a single user’s usage and behavoirs improves the software’s responsiveness and efficiency. There are dozens of articles out there discussing the topic.
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@bear_necessities said in AI In Poses:
we can’t really tell who is writing with LLMs and who just sucks at writing
I suck at writing. I will admit it here. The only part of writing I’m good at is spelling. Actually making sense, or writing interesting poses is where I’m a giant failure.
However, all of my bad poses and stuff are purely typed by hand.
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@MisterBoring The integration of “AI” into every single piece of software is personally abhorrent and will be looked back on with regret, mark my words. Further, if the service is free, you are the product. PAYING to be the product stretches that into the absurd.
I think my last point to make here is the simplest; I have NEVER turned down someone for RP when they said something like, “Forgive my English, it’s not my native language,” or “My poses are slow, is that okay?” I show them humanity and care, I feel special they chose me to spend time with. I will never feel compelled morally or socially to treat software with humanity. Especially when it’s so environmentally and socially repugnant.
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@Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:
I will never feel compelled morally or socially to treat software with humanity. Especially when it’s so environmentally and socially repugnant.
So if someone comes to you and explains that their particular economic and health situation force them to use ChatGPT to even come close to your level of expression and pose at a speed that isn’t offputting, you’d immediately tell them to get bent?
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@MisterBoring said in AI In Poses:
@Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:
I will never feel compelled morally or socially to treat software with humanity. Especially when it’s so environmentally and socially repugnant.
So if someone comes to you and explains that their particular economic and health situation force them to use ChatGPT to even come close to your level of expression and pose at a speed that isn’t offputting, you’d immediately tell them to get bent?
Ooh! Ooh! I’ve seen this movie! Would you kill a member of your family because the crazed cult that’s taken you hostage says it’s the only way to save the world? What if actual airplanes started crashing? What if, what if, what if a vision from a god said you had to plunge that knife into someone or the world would end?
Guess we all just hate the world and want it to die. It’s downright disrespectful to people who have reasons to murder their family members, but it is what it is.
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@MisterBoring That dog don’t hunt.
First, I made clear that a person’s capacity to speed-post or be syntax-perfect and typo free isn’t a qualifying factor in whom I choose to give my time. In fact I’d argue that one of the repulsive aspects of LLM in any type of RP is that the idea of wanting other writers to be like me is narcissistic and small-minded. The qualifier I care about is to be chosen as the one someone shares their time with, and hopefully have unique experiences come out of the pairing/grouping.
Second, I cannot believe anyone is “forced” to use ChatGPT (or other LLMs) for RP, only that they may opt to and if they are open about it I might suggest alternatives. So that stance in this hypothetical situation doesn’t hold up for me, either. It may be the tool they choose, and I may or may not be able to tell a LLM is being used, but I won’t tell anyone to get bent unless they are abusive to me or my dear ones.
This idea that our writing in MUSHing is competitive and constantly being qualified or disqualified is for the birds. Such petty, snarky, judgmental behavior is one of the many reasons I don’t bother with MUSH anymore. I RP to have fun with creative people, not pretend I’m King God English Professor Shakespeare or that my writing has more value than someone else’s. This is a hobby. It’s about fun. Anything else is set dressing at best and distraction at worst.
Got what you wanted, lost what you had.
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The couple of times I’ve run into someone using it, and was really convinced they were using it, it was done to make their writing longer and filled in.
But it was longer and full of fluff.
Just write the short pose. I beg. I’m tired. Don’t make me read all that, lol.
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@Muscle-Car said in AI In Poses:
the idea of wanting other writers to be like me is narcissistic and small-minded
I think this brings up another facet of this discussion. Where does mental health play into someone’s decision to rely on an LLM for assistance in communicating with others (be it an email, a discord message, or a pose in a MU)?
I could reasonably see imposter syndrome being just as much of a cause for jumping to ChatGPT for posing. I know I struggle with imposter syndrome regularly, and when I make a 2 line pose that describes my characters actions and dialogue in only the most basic terms, I honestly wonder if I shouldn’t just quit for being abjectly bad in comparison to some of the excellent prose I see my scene partners producing.
@Pyrephox said in AI In Poses:
Ooh! Ooh! I’ve seen this movie! Would you kill a member of your family because the crazed cult that’s taken you hostage says it’s the only way to save the world? What if actual airplanes started crashing? What if, what if, what if a vision from a god said you had to plunge that knife into someone or the world would end?
Ooh Ooh! I totally dismiss other people’s perspectives on things because I haven’t lived them and don’t believe they could exist.
Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance
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@MisterBoring said in AI In Poses:
I could reasonably see imposter syndrome being just as much of a cause for jumping to ChatGPT for posing. I know I struggle with imposter syndrome regularly, and when I make a 2 line pose that describes my characters actions and dialogue in only the most basic terms, I honestly wonder if I shouldn’t just quit for being abjectly bad in comparison to some of the excellent prose I see my scene partners producing.
I’ve said my piece of my dislike of what LLMs generate (what they are doing is not writing) on a qualitative level before so it didn’t seem necessary to say it again. It also gets into matters of taste that are whatever, if someone loves playing with ChatGPT that ain’t my business. But, I assure you, there are some of us out there who would much rather play with a real person whose writing wasn’t the best than try to read purple autocomplete nonsense.
ETA: This gets back to the original peeve that restarted this conversation. If a game allows or doesn’t care about players or staffers using LLM-generated content, then whatever, my problems with it become Me Problems rather than the game’s problems and I’m probably just in the wrong place. But it seems like it’d head off a lot of problems if people doing it said they were doing it so people who didn’t like it/weren’t comfortable with it didn’t have to waste their time
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@MisterBoring said in AI In Poses:
when I make a 2 line pose that describes my characters actions and dialogue in only the most basic terms, I honestly wonder if I shouldn’t just quit
I’m sorry you feel this way, and I’ve heard people say this before, but ChatGPT churn is not the answer.
@tsar said in AI In Poses:
Just write the short pose. I beg. I’m tired. Don’t make me read all that, lol.
In this very thread people are saying they would just prefer your short pose. Short poses are fine. Sometimes tiny poses are excellent and desirable. Like @tsar and @Third-Eye, I would much prefer to read a normal small pose than an LLM-addled longer one.
We all, in the end, RP with people who like our unique (human!) pose style and we avoid or less frequently interact with people who don’t like our unique pose style. If someone doesn’t like what you do, you probably don’t need them in your online life.
Use your unique human pose style, short or long or whatever it is. ChatGPT churn is not the answer.
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@Ashkuri said in AI In Poses:
In this very thread people are saying they would just prefer your short pose. Short poses are fine.
I have no interest in ChatGPT for creative purposes, and my little use of it for non creative purposes is dwindling down to zero mostly because I’ve quit the few things I was using it to help me with altogether.
My poses however, some months definitely rub my imposter syndrome the very wrong way. I may play in 5-6 scenes in a month, and in those scenes hundreds of lines of prose are created. When I look back at the logs, and see that I’m only responsible for maybe 10 lines in 6 scenes, I question whether I’m actually participating in the hobby or just being a virtual wallflower.
Proud Member of the Pro-Mummy Alliance
