Don’t forget we moved!
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Liberation MUSH
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@TNP
Yeah, and I think there was a tribe called the Black Furies that were all women who hated men but were also required to breed so they raped and killed men. Real classy stuff.I remember there was an adventure pack from white wolf where you had your pack break into a zoo and “save” captive wolves to make strong blooded kinfolk with them. They didn’t go into detail about what happened to the wolves after you saved them and handed them over to another pack but… yikes!
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@junipersky
Many of our hobbies are far more problematic than we know.Most people don’t realize it is cannon in the DC universe that the Amazons from the island Wonder Woman comes from would set sail into the ocean, find a boat full of men, bang them in a drunken orgy, then murder them all. They would keep the girls but gather all the male children that resulted from the orgy and take them to “man’s world” where they would leave them to be adopted or die.
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@De-Villefort said in Liberation MUSH:
Most people don’t realize it is cannon in the DC universe that the Amazons from the island Wonder Woman comes from would set sail into the ocean, find a boat full of men, bang them in a drunken orgy, then murder them all. They would keep the girls but gather all the male children that resulted from the orgy and take them to “man’s world” where they would leave them to be adopted or die.
If I remember correctly, this is just word for word Greek mythology. Which doesn’t make it less problematical just not original.
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Kitten moment of zen:
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@De-Villefort said in Liberation MUSH:
It was the old days when most players were horny teenagers.
Hah, joke’s on you, we’re all horny adults now, and our tasteless lewds have gotten even weirder
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@moth I can just sit and watch that play over and over. So cute.
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@De-Villefort said in Liberation MUSH:
@junipersky
Many of our hobbies are far more problematic than we know.Most people don’t realize it is cannon in the DC universe that the Amazons from the island Wonder Woman comes from would set sail into the ocean, find a boat full of men, bang them in a drunken orgy, then murder them all. They would keep the girls but gather all the male children that resulted from the orgy and take them to “man’s world” where they would leave them to be adopted or die.
Not is, was. Don’t get me wrong, you are absolutely right that this storyline absolutely did happen and was canonical for a few years, but eventually even the notoriously thick DC execs realized it was a bad look for one of their Holy Trinity of characters to be from Girl-Boss Date-Rape Infanticide Man-Murder-Island, especially when she had a movie due out the next year.
Prior to Nu52, which debuted in 2011, there was no real need for the Amazons to repopulate because the Amazons on Themyscira/Paradise Island were ageless and only ever aged when they left to Man’s World/Patriarch’s World.
That was the whole reason Diana/Wonder Woman was made from clay, because Hippolyta wanted a child and there were no men to make a baby with. (This was also retconned to make her a demi-god again, which was… not great, because it means her powers were derived from a man, instead of from the Greek Goddesses or her own training and hard work.)
There was another tribe introduced in the 80s (Post Crisis on Infinite Earths) who absolutely did this, minus the ocean, but they were in Egypt, not Themyscira, and didn’t have immortality. Diana wasn’t from this tribe. And yes, they were also problematic for many reasons I won’t get into now because this post is already way too long.
In 2016, with DC Rebirth, they apparently wiped the slate clean of Girlboss Gatekeep Gaslight island and set Wonder Woman back up in a way that more resembled the films.
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Last night before bed I was thinking about games I had played on in the past and how they handled problematic players. Oddly enough, the one I remember handling it best was the old, original, Dark Metal.
They didn’t have much in the way of administrators but they had zones where different levels of problematic RP could happen. It was a cyberpunk theme World of Darkness game set in a future where the war between supers had boiled over, mankind knew about and was prepared for werewolves, vampires, and mages.
They had cyborg cops with heavy assault weapons on flying cars that could rip a werewolf to shreds in the bright zones but the further away you moved from the corporate centers the more wild-west it became.
The poor were stuck living with the monsters in poverty zones and anything could happen in those places. Just being there meant you give up your consent to everything. It was ICA=ICC all the way so if a black spiral dancer decided to make a new hole in you to play hide the sausage with and you couldn’t fight him off, that was it for you.
I don’t remember much crazy creepy stuff happening in the bright zones but I do recall horror stories about the things happening in the poverty areas.
There was one area which the public was told never to go to because it was highly irradiated yet the public train ran to it anyway and it was a forest paradise for the Garou and Gaia shifter types.
Again, I think giving them their own zone where they have the OOC protection of consent limited a lot of problematic behavior.
<Side Rant>
It always bugged me that the train ran there though. There should have been a wall around the city with a secret exit to get to the werewolf lands. Otherwise the poor people living under the crushing cruelty of the vampires in the poverty zones would flee to the Garou zones.It’s gotta be hard to convince a populous that outside of the city complex will kill you when it’s idyllic ancient forest full of life and spacious populated suburbs the moment you step off the train at the last stop.
Those werewolves should have been flooded with thousands of poor human immigrants trying to get into their zone every day.
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@De-Villefort said in Liberation MUSH:
Yeah, and I think there was a tribe called the Black Furies that were all women who hated men but were also required to breed so they raped and killed men. Real classy stuff.
If there’s one thing in the world that’s funnier to me than men writing women, it’s men writing lesbians. I might give the writers a pass on this because being a rage-filled murdermutt is the whole point of the game, but still.
(Also, I am old enough to remember when the Amazons were the reincarnated souls of women who died to men’s predations, given a new life on Paradise Island by the goddesses of the Greek pantheon as kind of an apology for how bad men screwed up the world and the women who have to live in it.)
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@GF That was what they retconned it from in 2011, then back to in 2016. It was a good origin. Perez did good with that. Less good with making the tribe of all brown Amazons rapists and murderers, but nobody’s perfect.
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@GF said in Liberation MUSH:
@De-Villefort said in Liberation MUSH:
Yeah, and I think there was a tribe called the Black Furies that were all women who hated men but were also required to breed so they raped and killed men. Real classy stuff.
If there’s one thing in the world that’s funnier to me than men writing women, it’s men writing lesbians. I might give the writers a pass on this because being a rage-filled murdermutt is the whole point of the game, but still.
There’s a whole family in Legend of the Five Ring called the Matsu that aren’t lesbians, but who are matriarchal and – IIRC, it’s been about a decade – only train women to be warriors and blah blah blah. Despite the fact that they’re not written as outright lesbians, they are absolutely cut from the same rage-filled, man-hating cloth.
Y’know, like it’s almost impossible for male writers to consider that there may be a group of women whose interests and desires don’t revolve around dudes. Like, even if they’re matriarchal and outright gay, it is obviously because all of their thoughts, decisions, and actions are motivated by their burning hatred of men instead of… just total indifference or not being especially relevant to this group of people.
I will note that L5R was also written mostly in the '90s, buuuuuuuuuut I don’t think the underlying presumption has changed all that much.
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@Aria The Matsu are kind of a liminal case for me. In first edition, the game and setting were explicitly sexist; there’s a sidebar somewhere in the core book saying something like, “Female samurai are still samurai, but they’re also still female, so they’re being dishonorable if they don’t speak more quietly than men and make smaller movements than men.” So, from that standpoint, the Matsu getting to say “Fuck you, and you’re insulting the memory of my world-saving ancestor if you don’t go fuck yourself” makes sense…
…But, like, Rokugan is fictional. They could have just written a world that doesn’t hate women where one group of women is allowed to be loud and aggressive without writing it so it’s a response to institutional sexism. The Matsu making sense in the context of that setting reminds me of the really old arguments about that one Metal Gear game where the only female soldier has to fight in a bikini because something something plant DNA breathes through her skin so wearing more than a bikini would suffocate her.
I dunno. Getting off-topic here anyway, I suppose.
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@Aria said in Liberation MUSH:
Y’know, like it’s almost impossible for male writers to consider that there may be a group of women whose interests and desires don’t revolve around dudes
I imagine it’s possible for individual writers, but when you get more than one dude in a room it’s instantly dick-centric. And then you’ve got male publishers and editors…
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@Pavel
And to be fair, most of the comic book consumer base is switches not buttons.
The studios are probably just targeting the people they think will give them the most money.
Horny teenage toggles just waiting for someone to turn them on.
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@De-Villefort said in Liberation MUSH:
And to be fair, most of the comic book consumer base is switches
I assume they’re more bottoms who pretend to be switches to seem more interesting.
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@Pavel
Hahaha!
Switches and buttons (Penis and vagina), not switches and bottoms.
But also, I agree.I was trying not to be crude while saying that the comic book fan base is a total sausage fest.
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Let’s not be reductive genitalia-essentialists about gender no matter where we are in the forum.
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@De-Villefort said in Liberation MUSH:
And to be fair, most of the comic book consumer base is switches not buttons.
This is a broad assumption that is probably not accurate. Every stat I see seems to be parroting claims made in 2014 or 2017, where men were deemed to be between 64% and 54% of readership of ‘comic books’.
This is market research, and clearly - CLEARLY - people who don’t identify as switches are making up enough of the target audience to result in ch-ch-ch-changes
