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MU Peeves Thread
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I’m not invalidating anyone or anyone’s experience as that is not what I’m about. I’m also not choosing sides because I really don’t have one.
My only issue in this thread currently is that we (I say we because we are a community meaning we are awesome as one and not so awesome as one) are starting down a road of personal attacks.
It’s okay not to agree. It’s okay to put comments on a thread that you have a lot of information about or no information about. It’s okay to have a perspective that is you specific. It’s okay to call people out on that. Great.
It’s starting to come as an attack though and I’d like to politely request we tone that back a bit.
I say this with no admin power or no power at all, just a request. Which means it can be ignored.
Let’s just try to be kind when we can.
Thanks for reading!
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BTW, in case you missed it, my thoughts on 2043 winding down were fairly accurate and confirmed by the Director’s player shortly after, so feel free to acknowledge that. Or not. You don’t have to be at all reasonable in your crusade, or even connected to reality, but it does take a big dent out of your entire premise that I don’t know what I’m talking about.
Sorry, but they were not fairly accurate. You made a lot of assumptions about game runners like Director lacking “patience and support” and “doing it alone” and not having “the support they needed to keep it going.” As one of three staffers on that game, I feel we did just fine with the workload we had, and Director had patience in spades. He responded quickly and always handled things respectfully and treated players with kindness, you included.
You always have the choice: stay and enjoy what a game runner can offer for as long as they offer it or go open your own game. Get your big team together and write hours and hours of lore and then tell your stories for people. Oh, and hope and pray against all odds that nothing pressing in your RL comes up, because you’ll have to put your game and its players first, above everything else. Apparently, that’s the only way it’ll hold any value in your eyes.
Try to remember that there are people with feelings behind these staff bits that put a lot of their time and creative energy into something that didn’t work out in the end, and nobody could be more sensitive or aware of that reality than they are.
Good day.
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@Roz said in MU Peeves Thread:
Just gonna say it: Warma might be a pain in the butt, but if almost anyone else had been the first…
Oh, no question about it. I absolutely jumped on it. But it’s not like this is an isolated incident.
He’s spewing bullshit about people I consider friends, in a thread about a game he doesn’t intend to play.
After he spewed bullshit about people I consider friends, in a thread about a game where he quit at one point then returned to without so much as acknowledging or apologizing for what a fucking weirdo he was.
While spewing bullshit about people I consider friends, in a thread about a game where he actually does play (shocker) while defending someone I know first-hand is lying about me.As soon as he stops making up shit and posting it here as cold-hard-facts, I’ll get off his “jock,” as he put it.
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@KarmaBum said in MU Peeves Thread:
@Roz said in MU Peeves Thread:
Just gonna say it: Warma might be a pain in the butt, but if almost anyone else had been the first…
Oh, no question about it. I absolutely jumped on it. But it’s not like this is an isolated incident.
He’s spewing bullshit about people I consider friends, in a thread about a game he doesn’t intend to play.
After he spewed bullshit about people I consider friends, in a thread about a game where he quit at one point then returned to without so much as acknowledging or apologizing for what a fucking weirdo he was.
While spewing bullshit about people I consider friends, in a thread about a game where he actually does play (shocker) while defending someone I know first-hand is lying about me.As soon as he stops making up shit and posting it here as cold-hard-facts, I’ll get off his “jock,” as he put it.
I think the point is that plenty of us have beef with other people on this forum, but disregarding and dismissing a legitimate grievance based on that beef is a pretty bad look. You can call people out for being mean to your friends without literally dismissing (“zero people”) a legitimate point they make.
In Occam I trust.
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@Coin You’re right, and I apologize for that. I’m not gonna edit the post, 'cause seems like an even worse look, but you’re right to call me on it. I did exactly the thing I was complaining about.
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Was it really a “legitimate” grievance? Or was it a thinly veiled accusation that he CONTINUED TO MAKE even after the gamerunner came on the board to note that there are story purposes, etc? You say potato, I say po-ta-toe I suppose.
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for many reasons both mush related and not i’m really sick of the “keep sweet” mentality that is often pushed on people who push back when someone is being ugly. it’s honestly rather repulsive to me. i’ve had to deal with a lot of “be kind/put other people’s comfort above your own/shut up” through most of my life. i don’t feel particularly bound to be kind to someone who threw shade at a game runner about being irresponsible because the game didn’t last for the amount of time that they thought it would and then even insinuated that maybe they shouldn’t have made the game in the first place because of that. along with the ‘hmm if you’re not perfect maybe you shouldn’t say anything because you know you’re both not perfect’ stuff. that kind of stuff should have died in the 90s and i think it should be called out bluntly every single damn time.
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@bear_necessities said in MU Peeves Thread:
Was it really a “legitimate” grievance? Or was it a thinly veiled accusation that he CONTINUED TO MAKE even after the gamerunner came on the board to note that there are story purposes, etc? You say potato, I say po-ta-toe I suppose.
I mean, multiple other people in the thread also agreed with having some bad feelings about it? Something having story reasons doesn’t mean people can’t take issue with it.
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@bear_necessities said in MU Peeves Thread:
Was it really a “legitimate” grievance? Or was it a thinly veiled accusation that he CONTINUED TO MAKE even after the gamerunner came on the board to note that there are story purposes, etc? You say potato, I say po-ta-toe I suppose.
it was clearly a legitimate grievance if we’re out here agreeing that if anyone else had said it, the response would have been different.
@mietze said in MU Peeves Thread:
for many reasons both mush related and not i’m really sick of the “keep sweet” mentality that is often pushed on people who push back when someone is being ugly. it’s honestly rather repulsive to me. i’ve had to deal with a lot through most of my life. i don’t feel particularly bound to be kind to someone who threw shade at a game runner about being irresponsible because the game didn’t last for the amount of time that they thought it would and then even insinuated that maybe they shouldn’t have made the game in the first place because of that. along with the ‘hmm if you’re not perfect maybe you shouldn’t say anything because you know you’re both not perfect’ stuff. that kind of stuff should have died in the 90s and i think it should be called out bluntly every single damn time.
I mean, agreed. I could not possibly care any fucking less if KB and Warma Sheen want to have it out to see who can out-argue the other. But by that same logic you’re using, is it not adequate to point out that someone being mean to your friend isn’t some blanket reason to dismiss a point they made?
Because let’s stop pretending the rest of us aren’t guilty of making snide accusations and passive aggressive claims on these forums, for the most part, lol. I couldn’t give two shits about Warma Sheen or KarmaBum, I ain’t got a horse in this race, but you don’t get to change the rules of the race because someone was mean.
In Occam I trust.
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@Coin said in MU Peeves Thread:
I mean, agreed. I could not possibly care any fucking less if KB and Warma Sheen want to have it out to see who can out-argue the other. But by that same logic you’re using, is it not adequate to point out that someone being mean to your friend isn’t some blanket reason to dismiss a point they made?
I kind of read mietze’s post as being a response to RightMeow’s, not the rest of the discussion. I could be wrong!
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@Roz said in MU Peeves Thread:
@Coin said in MU Peeves Thread:
I mean, agreed. I could not possibly care any fucking less if KB and Warma Sheen want to have it out to see who can out-argue the other. But by that same logic you’re using, is it not adequate to point out that someone being mean to your friend isn’t some blanket reason to dismiss a point they made?
I kind of read mietze’s post as being a response to RightMeow’s, not the rest of the discussion. I could be wrong!
… dang, that’s probably true.
I mean my point still stands, though I apologize, @mietze, for the more aggressive tone in my response due to my misunderstanding!
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@Coin i don’t really care if people get annoyed and short with each other. we’ve all done it. and yeah, it’s good to take a step back and read through what people are saying. that’s not what i am talking about.
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“let’s all be nice” is a tool of silencing. i think it’s not always intended that way, but sometimes it absolutely is less about actual concern for others and more about that person calling for that being unable to tolerate their discomfort. i think that’s fine outside of the rough and rowdy section. but within it, i’m going to be just honest here with my personal opinon–i think pushing keep sweet on people is being an asshole here.
enforce respectful language. call out hypocritcal stuff. that’s needed. keeping sweet is not, and should not be. maybe my feelings are inappropriately raw for this. i am trying to be respectful, but i’m not feeling kind and i’m not a bad person for not feeling kind about this. IMO.
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Agreed entirely. Anger is as valid an emotion as any other, and in trying to suppress it entirely, we only hurt people. Of course examine your reasons for why you’re angry and if your response is appropriate to the situation, but sharp language and harsh criticisms absolutely have their place, and that’s honestly the whole reason for this section of the forum.
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@mietze said in MU Peeves Thread:
for many reasons both mush related and not i’m really sick of the “keep sweet” mentality that is often pushed on people who push back when someone is being ugly. it’s honestly rather repulsive to me. i’ve had to deal with a lot through most of my life. i don’t feel particularly bound to be kind to someone who threw shade at a game runner about being irresponsible because the game didn’t last for the amount of time that they thought it would and then even insinuated that maybe they shouldn’t have made the game in the first place because of that. along with the ‘hmm if you’re not perfect maybe you shouldn’t say anything because you know you’re both not perfect’ stuff. that kind of stuff should have died in the 90s and i think it should be called out bluntly every single damn time.
The specific thing of a game closing down “too soon” has always baffled me, too. Like, I’ve never played a tabletop RPG that ended with a triumphant conclusion at exactly the right time for all players to feel like it was time to stop. Every game I’ve ever been in (as GM or player) has eventually stopped way before ‘its time’ because of…life things. Schedules no longer lined up, group blew up, GM burned out, whatever.
I also don’t regret a single one of those games. I HAD FUN while it lasted. That’s all I ask. If I want a complete story with a clear beginning, middle, end and coherent plot, I write a book.
Play the game, enjoy it while it’s there, appreciate your fellow players for their contributions, move on when it dies. Way more happy times that way.
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@Pyrephox yeah. i think i have such an aversion to that attitude because it’s just so…myopic. especially since usually i’ve found the same people who have some weird entitlement to a game not closing because they’re not wanting it to are also often the first to complain about the lack of new games for them to try. with absolutely no sense of irony.
i remember how just…really disgusting people were when one of my favorite games closed. like i ‘grew up’ mushing in the 90s so i’d seen a lot of self-centered stuff but to see how many people were writing up screeds on the discord (or maybe it was skype) about how horrible the game runner was for daring to close this game that the complainers had put WORK into and so she owed them the game it self so they could keep going, ect…" it was just…i dunno. the attacks attacked her RL, her (personal, not game) character, ect. it was just really ugly. And I thought it was a one off but I know it’s happened many times, i just haven’t seen all the ugliness because I don’t like to join game discords because they stress me out.
why the fuck is this even a thing.
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@Coin i appreciate the apology. i debated whether to say anything about the keep sweet stuff, because it is very raw for me due to background and currently dealing with why can’t you just be nice so they won’t be uncomfortable stuff being slung at me personally (i know that here it was done pretty impersonally) due to me speaking up about certain things after someone else makes a really offensive statement. But i am trying to be better about speaking up about it in other areas too. i should have replied directly to the post, but my habit is to use the general reply button.
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I too wish we could all just get along but sometimes somebody’s being a shithead. Like-- you can’t just be kind to people being a shithead. It exhausts you and amuses the shithead.
I have spent hours and hours of my life bending over backwards trying to be nice to people who were intent on being shitheads and generally the result was that I spent hours and hours of emotional labor on people who could not have cared less about me or the impact on me.
let it be a challenge to you
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Maybe this is why my hips and back hurt so much lately. Bending over for shitheads…
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@sao said in MU Peeves Thread:
I too wish we could all just get along
That’d be so fucking boring. Disagreements, arguments, conflict… that’s the spice of life, the only way we as a species advance. And sometimes you’ve gotta punch a fuckhead.
